Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Jazz Is Freedom

thebaffler.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 65 posts

Re: Jazz Is Freedom

#21

Post by crtified »

GoofballJones wrote: post #19

I love jazz. I love Monk. What I don't care for is the jazz musicians and "purists" who, in essence, is like "if it's not jazz, IT'S CRAP" attitude. Especially when they compare jazz to rock. Listen to the "Wrecking Crew" backing musicians from the 60s complain about the rock music they "had" to play on and how simplistic it was...yet were frustrated by how popular it was. They would say how they could play circles a…

It may be fair also to say that musical intolerance comes in many flavours. Jazz elitism may be rife in certain circles, while in others, strident purism of other types dominates equally gallingly.

For example, the rock "feel/vibe purists", for whom the peak of all possible things is David Gilmour holding a sustained note from the blues scale - anything more strenuous, or of different feel, is considered extravagant, self indulgent, or missing-the-point, man.

Each faction holds some kernels of truth, but when personal bias turns those kernels into hard prejudice, the only lesson left to be learned is that we're all doing our own slightly different versions of more-or-less the same thing - "art", as per life.

Re: Jazz Is Freedom

#22

Post by eafkuor »

50 wrote: post #17

If anyone wants a hear of modern jazz, I'm liking Jazzwise's "The 20 Best Jazz Albums of 2022": https://www.jazzwise.com/features/article/the-20-best-jazz-a...

I also recommend "Feeding the machine" by Binker & Moses

Re: Jazz Is Freedom

#23

Post by smcnally »

jancsika wrote: post #7

Monk was the Diogenes of music. Just listen to his solos on "It Don't Mean a Thing," one of his recordings mentioned in the article (I hadn't heard it before): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pU-5pEpfmE In this Ellington tune, the second half of the first phrase is a bunch of repeated b-flats. And you hear that same segment repeated three times before the tune is done. That's a lot of repeated b-flats. Like any jazz…

Thanks for this response and "It Don't Mean a Thing” link.

> the second half of the first phrase is a bunch of repeated b-flats

Monk does a ton of voicings with those repeated notes. Of the ~16 repeats, he’s playing supporting chords with different roots, augmentation, diminishes for ~25-75% of them.

> He doesn't even retain the "correct" number of measures for that part.

His timing and “dragging” and dissonance can’t be easy on bandmates. But it makes Monk a top example of knowing it’s him 10 seconds into a record you’ve never heard before. And agreed at not looking too closely at what Monk was doing wrong or right — it interferes with enjoying it.

Re: Jazz Is Freedom

#24

Post by smcnally »

slater- wrote: post #12
jefurii wrote: post #9

In one sense jazz is all about freedom - you can play "whatever you want!"- but in many other senses it's as incredibly traditional and formulaic.as classical. There is a canon of songs that is worshipped, and song structures and instrument combos are mostly frozen in amber, and there are lines you just cannot cross. Every genre gets like that after awhile I guess.

there's this concept of jazz "as a verb" vs "as a noun." musicians back in the day were limited by the technology of the day, so they played things like horns and upright basses. the thing that made their music "jazz" was the improvisation. the jazz was something they did, not an objective genre standard. if monk or miles or coltrane were alive today, their music would be way different. they'd probably take advantage…

You’re right — Herbie Hancock played with all those guys then, still alive, and has made way different music since.

Re: Jazz Is Freedom

#25

Post by blueboo »

GoofballJones wrote: post #19

I love jazz. I love Monk. What I don't care for is the jazz musicians and "purists" who, in essence, is like "if it's not jazz, IT'S CRAP" attitude. Especially when they compare jazz to rock. Listen to the "Wrecking Crew" backing musicians from the 60s complain about the rock music they "had" to play on and how simplistic it was...yet were frustrated by how popular it was. They would say how they could play circles a…

Old men pine for their glory days. Miles Davis confessed a bittersweet nostalgia for hard bop even as he pushed himself and his collaborators into a then-uncertain jazz-rock.

The young folks who idolise them confuse that nostalgia for capital-t Truth and I think that has led to a nucleus of purism. (I say this as a reformed purist myself.) But it’s a nucleus with the tiny scale that connotes…most of the top pros in the most straightahead jazz today have diverse musical interests and ambitions.

Re: Jazz Is Freedom

#26

Post by mastazi »

50 wrote: post #17

If anyone wants a hear of modern jazz, I'm liking Jazzwise's "The 20 Best Jazz Albums of 2022": https://www.jazzwise.com/features/article/the-20-best-jazz-a...

One way to discover new artists that I've been enjoying, is going through the "rising stars" section in the Downbeat critics poll[1].

Each time I pick a different subcategory (e.g. "rising star trumpet") and check out the artists from the list. When I hear something I like, I add it to a playlist. I'm planning to do the same with Downbeat's readers poll[2] and, now that I've seen it, with the Jazzwise list linked by parent.

I also go to my local jazz club about once a month. The enjoyment you can get from live music is incomparable to just listening to the recordings IMHO, and it seems to me that this is especially true with regards to jazz.

[1] https://archive.maherpublications.com/view/331464720/

[2] https://archive.maherpublications.com/view/1051366422/

Re: Jazz Is Freedom

#27

Post by hanlec »

50 wrote: post #17

If anyone wants a hear of modern jazz, I'm liking Jazzwise's "The 20 Best Jazz Albums of 2022": https://www.jazzwise.com/features/article/the-20-best-jazz-a...

Every month, I comb through previous month Downbeat, JazzTimes, and Jazzwise magazines putting together a list of albums. The trick? I do this with past years magazine though.

I recently discovered the MusicBox app; sort of a listen later. My current playlist has 62 albums, as in December, these magazines are publishing their best of lists.

As someone close said a couple of days: "I didn't realize how much time goes into this music I might not always like to listen every day".

Re: Jazz Is Freedom

#28

Post by magicalhippo »

eafkuor wrote: post #22
50 wrote: post #17

If anyone wants a hear of modern jazz, I'm liking Jazzwise's "The 20 Best Jazz Albums of 2022": https://www.jazzwise.com/features/article/the-20-best-jazz-a...

I also recommend "Feeding the machine" by Binker & Moses

I don't know why, but as with so many other things Jazz-y, but the sax feels like "more cowbells" to me.

That is, I overall enjoyed the tunes, but I think it would have been a much more interesting had there been greater variation beyond a "simple" sax as the main instrument.

However, I fully accept that it's just not for me. I enjoy music from a lot of different genres, from medieval music to goa trance to stoner and doom metal, but somehow Jazz has never clicked for me.

Re: Jazz Is Freedom

#29

Post by navane »

At every moment in history there were artists moving the boundaries of what was considered music. Every so often, a near past style was frozen and called a genre, you could call it a major version. Once the jazz as most people know it was part of a movement pushing those boundaries, but so was debussy, chopin, or almost any other composer. Now, this jazz has little freedom and has more in common with classical music, as most boundaries of the genre are fixed. Of course other jazz is still pushing, and because of that it is a less clear defined part of the genre.

My personal favorite is Keith Jarrett, clearly owing to Monk, with the Tokyo concert. His Koln concert is better known, and less avant guarde, the Tokio requires full attention from the listener.

I like the articles focus on a single person, as jazz itself grew so wide it is hard to say anything about it. The concept jazz can be better understood by learning about the individual concrete parts of it, rather than sweeping generalizations.

Re: Jazz Is Freedom

#30

Post by aczerepinski »

jefurii wrote: post #9

In one sense jazz is all about freedom - you can play "whatever you want!"- but in many other senses it's as incredibly traditional and formulaic.as classical. There is a canon of songs that is worshipped, and song structures and instrument combos are mostly frozen in amber, and there are lines you just cannot cross. Every genre gets like that after awhile I guess.

Jazz education is a blessing and a curse. Most high level high school programs are focused on the Essentially Ellington competition, meaning that they learn to swing, to play with humanity and emotion, and to blend together. All good things, and I do believe that Ellington is the greatest American composer period. But it appears learning an 80+ year old style usually is not a gateway to discovering the modern day equivalent.

Still, if you look in the right places jazz is still very much alive and evolving. I made a top ten list for 2022 if you want examples that acknowledge the tradition but don’t touch the worshipped canon and to my ears are relevant to right now. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NUGbkID4mmc

Post reply on HN