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Kids and music lessons: why do many promising players quit early?

thewalrus.ca

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Re: Kids and music lessons: why do many promising players quit early?

#21

As someone who runs a music label, ans has been doing this since 1999, it's not worth it to invest heavily into music. The people that make money in the industry, aren't the people that play the instruments. It's a long gone dream of just making music that has turned into payola, social media corruption, fake audiences, and negative things like drug abuse, lip syncing, fraud, suicide and ghost writers. Don't wish it…

It depends on what genre you're going in to as well. Classical and jazz musicians usually have a very different experience than what you describe. Although there's one thing in common among them all -- it's difficult to make good money.

I would suppose that the top-tier symphonies pay pretty well -- but making the cut there is probably the equivalent of a basketball player making the NBA.

Re: Kids and music lessons: why do many promising players quit early?

#22
My son started cello at four, at a local music school for kids. Preucil School of Music

He's still playing at 29. Still sounds good. Still enjoying it.

He played simple songs at first, then more complicated ones. They were appropriate for where he was at, and he was happy to play them.

They taught by ear, didn't read music for years. So he could work on sounding good from the start.

Something he learned early was deliberate practice, where you go very slowly thru the song making sure each phrase sounds good. Then you speed it up and string the phrases together. In a few days you're playing full speed and sounding good.

See, you never want to practice playing it badly. That trains you into playing bad music, and you have to undo the damage you just did to yourself.

Re: Kids and music lessons: why do many promising players quit early?

#23
It’s about

- matching content to interests. I took classical guitar, my guitar teacher realized I was really into blues (way into very capable rock guitar), so I learned classical for the theory and enjoyment of pieces e2e, and blues for a significantly growing interest as a “rock kid.” The more solid electric guitar I learned, the more I realized the classical background was making me good, and it played back and forth like that and I took music lessons until I went to college.

- I think bands are a big part of why kids stick with music. The happiest times in my life growing up were the 2 hr jams after school. Option to find bar bands is what keeps me playing as an adult as well. I don’t know if high school bands are still out there with all the tech now? Def curious.

It all paid off - I landed in tech somewhat bc DS&A and OOD == music scales and chord progressions, programming == creativity with known safe bounds like like in music. And I can find bands to play with until I’m old.

Re: Kids and music lessons: why do many promising players quit early?

#24

"Some teachers find it’s their job to make students get better," Pappas says. "But what a teacher really needs to do is give their students the tools to make themselves better." In my opinion, both approaches are wrong. The job of a good teacher is to make learning fun. Once you enjoy practicing, skill follows automatically.

I think this is deeply wrong, and it externalizes the impetus for practice.

I'm good at math not because some teacher in my youth made it fun. I'm good at math because I found the pedagogy and practice of it fun in and of itself. In fact, I've almost always found every attempt to "make math fun" to invariably be devoid of any real math content. If you don't enjoy the practice and struggle and discovery, and get motivation only from those rare, occasional breakthroughs in understanding or skill, you're not going to be good at it. Full stop. Sorry, that's not how the world works.

Re: Kids and music lessons: why do many promising players quit early?

#26
Playing music for me is a deep, deep state of being. If all goes well it is a bit like what I feel when programming when I am in the flow, but even more direct and imidiate.

But it took me quite some time to get there, especially without teachers. But compared to my neighbor who learned the same instrument aince she was a kid I could just sit there and play. Without notes she did not know what to do. "Just explore the instrument" seemed like a wild and undoable prompt to her.

My believe is that many kids who go into music, imagined something else than it turned out to be. My believe is also that many music schools teach things in the wrong order. They teach you how to speak before you know how to make a sound. Even after more than a decade of playing I still find new ways to make my instruments sound.

Re: Kids and music lessons: why do many promising players quit early?

#27
> Music lessons—like many activities taken up during our youth—rest heavily on the student–teacher–parent triad. “Some teachers find it’s their job to make students get better,” Pappas says. “But what a teacher really needs to do is give their students the tools to make themselves better.”

The absolute critical thing for learning, the thing a teach and/or parent must do to make a child successful, is not just giving tools. You have to inspire a child to love music. You have to plant in them the seed of desire to create beautiful sound. And you have to make it fun to do. Otherwise it is just another boring chore, with no clear internalized goal.

When we wanted our children to learn to play an instrument, we spent months playing Bach and Mozzart for them, and explaining what was going on in the music. We played our instruments around them, and let them investigate them. Eventually they started asking us how they could make their own music, and that's when we began lessons.

"If you want to build a ship, don’t drum up the men and women to gather wood, divide the work, and give orders. Instead, teach them to yearn for the vast and endless sea."

Re: Kids and music lessons: why do many promising players quit early?

#28
post #5

For me, it was the content. I stopped playing piano at 14, because my teacher really wanted me to play classical. Not a fan. I came back to piano later by myself when I wanted to play video game music. Then I wanted to play stuff from movies, pop songs, etc. I started watching interesting videos on reharmonization and tried that on some pop hits to interesting effect. I wouldn’t say I “stopped” completely, but my rel…

You might be interested in ragtime video game covers. There are lots of videos of a ragtime piano player called Tom Brier who *sightreads* video game music notation. That is, he plays a score while reading it for the first time. He's incredibly skilled, it's awe-inspiring.

https://youtu.be/ffwVKDP8nzQ

Re: Kids and music lessons: why do many promising players quit early?

#29
I quit because I hated the music I was asked to play. When I was 5, I started piano with an amazing teacher (a local college professor) and made serious progress, both in skills and learning things like chord theory over the next four years. He would write out every piece I was to learn by hand in my book when I was getting started

I moved and the teacher my parents found that I could walk to only selected pieces that I didn't like which were technically difficult, but didn't sound good to me even after I learned them. She had to figure out what level I was and go through boring books of theory that moved way too slowly. I only much later found out you could buy sheet music of artists I actually liked.

I quit lessons and started composing instead, moving that to the computer when I got an Amiga 1000.

Re: Kids and music lessons: why do many promising players quit early?

#30

"Some teachers find it’s their job to make students get better," Pappas says. "But what a teacher really needs to do is give their students the tools to make themselves better." In my opinion, both approaches are wrong. The job of a good teacher is to make learning fun. Once you enjoy practicing, skill follows automatically.

I wouldn't even say that the point of music teachers is to do anything about music. It's life mentoring, with adults who have different experiences and ideas than your parents do.

Practicing an instrument is a way to learn how to get into a flow state

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