Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement • Hacker News Board

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#21

Post by burkaman » Wed, Jan 04, 2023, 4:06 PM UTC

whimsicalism wrote: post #18

Nextgrid wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because we somehow ended up in a situation where spyware got effectively decriminalised doesn't mean it's a good situation especially in the long-term. If nobody is willing to pay for your product, maybe it shouldn't exist?

Spyware? This is about logging activity of users on the same app that you built, not tracking them across the internet. Writing down what someone does while interacting with your own business was never "criminalized" to begin with. Businesses do pay for this product. Unilaterally making tech products illegal after backlash in the media is precisely why capital is deallocated from Europe to other places with less reac…

It's not illegal, they just need to ask their users if it's ok. If there's nothing wrong with this practice, why would the users say no?

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#22

Post by whimsicalism » Wed, Jan 04, 2023, 4:06 PM UTC

britneybitch wrote: post #17

whimsicalism wrote: post #6

[flagged]

Child labor laws and minimum wage also made some revenue models untenable, and the world is better off for it. I want to live in a world where businesses can profit without having to spy on people. This is a good step in that direction.

Spy on people? If you like a post on Instagram it is core to their service that they log that information. If they didn't, the app wouldn't work very well.

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#23

Post by greggarious » Wed, Jan 04, 2023, 4:06 PM UTC

Nextgrid wrote: post #8

whimsicalism wrote: post #6

[flagged]

Just because we somehow ended up in a situation where spyware got effectively decriminalised doesn't mean it's a good situation especially in the long-term. If nobody is willing to pay for your product, maybe it shouldn't exist?

> Just because we somehow ended up in a situation where spyware got effectively decriminalised doesn't mean it's a good situation especially in the long-term.

Spyware is just newspeak for “I feel immune from being prosecuted under the computer fraud and abuse act and the senator I paid for agrees”

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#24

Post by ericpauley » Wed, Jan 04, 2023, 4:07 PM UTC

Nextgrid wrote: post #16

stickfigure wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much do you pay for HN?

I'd be more than happy to pay for HN, but I think it's a very bad example as it's not funded by any kind of ads/tracking (not directly at the very least).

The entire site is one giant ad for YC. The only difference is that HN has achieved an extremely effective content marketing strategy so tracking isn't needed.

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#25

Post by whimsicalism » Wed, Jan 04, 2023, 4:07 PM UTC

wahnfrieden wrote: post #15

Nextgrid wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because we somehow ended up in a situation where spyware got effectively decriminalised doesn't mean it's a good situation especially in the long-term. If nobody is willing to pay for your product, maybe it shouldn't exist?

Can Meta cover its operational costs without personalized ads? Re: its ability to exist. Or is the issue that it’s unpalatable to wall st and investors and advertisers without ad personalization driven growth

Almost certainly not, imo.

Unpalatable to Walk St? No, using a service that does not have personalization is unpalatable to the small businesses that pay for Meta's services.

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#26

Post by jdiez17 » Wed, Jan 04, 2023, 4:07 PM UTC

whimsicalism wrote: post #6

[flagged]

> This decision, as I understand it, renders large swathes of tech service revenue models untenable.

To be honest, good riddance. If it is no longer possible to offer users a "free" service in exchange for extremely invasive spying and psychological manipulation (without explicit consent [0]), it forces companies to 1) innovate in order to offer such services for a sustainable price, and 2) encourages competition from new entrants.

[0] By the way, one can imagine a scenario where users are somehow compensated for the permission to use their personal data. For example, let's say Facebook now costs 20€ per year. If you allow Facebook to use your personal data for ad targeting, now it costs 5€ per year.

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#27

Post by dylan604 » Wed, Jan 04, 2023, 4:08 PM UTC

samwillis wrote: post #9

Nextgrid wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In practice they will get away with it because good luck enforcing those penalties on a company without any assets you can reach.

Countries would block access for business advertising or operating with Facebook, and may even decide to block access to their users.

Punishing companies directly that do business with Facebook/Meta would probably be the strongest deterrent. If we can sanction countries, why not companies?

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#28

Post by britneybitch » Wed, Jan 04, 2023, 4:08 PM UTC

whimsicalism wrote: post #18

Nextgrid wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because we somehow ended up in a situation where spyware got effectively decriminalised doesn't mean it's a good situation especially in the long-term. If nobody is willing to pay for your product, maybe it shouldn't exist?

Spyware? This is about logging activity of users on the same app that you built, not tracking them across the internet. Writing down what someone does while interacting with your own business was never "criminalized" to begin with. Businesses do pay for this product. Unilaterally making tech products illegal after backlash in the media is precisely why capital is deallocated from Europe to other places with less reac…

> not tracking them across the internet

FB's like button, found on many websites, tracks you across the internet whether or not you click it.

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/litigation/facebook-to-pay-90-...

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#29

Post by Nextgrid » Wed, Jan 04, 2023, 4:08 PM UTC

friedman23 wrote: post #19

Nextgrid wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because we somehow ended up in a situation where spyware got effectively decriminalised doesn't mean it's a good situation especially in the long-term. If nobody is willing to pay for your product, maybe it shouldn't exist?

> If nobody is willing to pay for your product, maybe it shouldn't exist? Hm, so you think it's better for the world for poor people to not have access to information via tools like Google? I think the fact that you need to use emotionally loaded language like spyware to make your argument really detracts from it.

Advertisers aren't altruistic and don't voluntarily subsidise poor people's access; advertisers want to target people with money.

Poor people being able to "freeload" is a side effect of imperfect ad targeting - if advertisers could reliably identify someone's financial standing without hurting conversion rates they'd absolutely do so and deny access to poor people.

If nothing gets done against ad targeting and non-consensual data collection & processing it's likely that there will be a point that poor people will lose access to ad-supported content (despite said content being free to someone much richer).

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#30

Post by throw__away7391 » Wed, Jan 04, 2023, 4:09 PM UTC

whimsicalism wrote: post #6

[flagged]

For many industries like these that are heavily driven by development of intellectual property and heavily regulated by the government, nearly all the profit is made in the US market, while selling to the entire rest of the world adds a few % of revenue that by itself would not be enough to justify the investment.