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Disagreeable personalities do not have an advantage in power at work (2020)

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

21–30 of 131 posts

Re: Disagreeable personalities do not have an advantage in power at work (2020)

#21

"being disagreeable-that is, behaving in aggressive, selfish, and manipulative ways" - am I the only one finding this definition incorrect? I think a disagreeable person is one not willing to accept an opinion they find incorrect. None of the attributes they listed seem relevant :) Or maybe I'm just being disagreeable

I think aggressive or maybe excessive is a part of that. When you're not willing to accept an opinion and just give up, it's one thing. If you put up a huge fight every single time, it's more of a problem.

Re: Disagreeable personalities do not have an advantage in power at work (2020)

#22
post #19

As a layman, possibly under the distant influence of Jordan Peterson, I thought "disagreeable" meant strong-willed, principled, uncompromising (on what one considers important), direct, etc., i.e. what the article probably designates as "combative"; and was surprised to see "selfish", "manipulative", and "deceitful" also lumped into this category. These seem to be so different personality traits...

Their definition of disagreeable meaning "behaving in aggressive, selfish, and manipulative ways" also surprised me.

Re: Disagreeable personalities do not have an advantage in power at work (2020)

#23
post #19

As a layman, possibly under the distant influence of Jordan Peterson, I thought "disagreeable" meant strong-willed, principled, uncompromising (on what one considers important), direct, etc., i.e. what the article probably designates as "combative"; and was surprised to see "selfish", "manipulative", and "deceitful" also lumped into this category. These seem to be so different personality traits...

I guess Jordan Peterson, which I consider a master of nonsense, has to go through the dictionary again. The Oxford Languages definition of disagreeable is:

- upleasant or unenjoyable

- unfriendly and bad tempered

At least the first definition fits well with Jordan I believe. Maybe this is his guilty conscience trying to give meaning to the fact that he is fundamentally disagreeable?

Re: Disagreeable personalities do not have an advantage in power at work (2020)

#24
post #19

As a layman, possibly under the distant influence of Jordan Peterson, I thought "disagreeable" meant strong-willed, principled, uncompromising (on what one considers important), direct, etc., i.e. what the article probably designates as "combative"; and was surprised to see "selfish", "manipulative", and "deceitful" also lumped into this category. These seem to be so different personality traits...

I guess Jordan Peterson, which I consider a master of nonsense, has to go through the dictionary again. The Oxford Languages definition of disagreeable is: - upleasant or unenjoyable - unfriendly and bad tempered At least the first definition fits well with Jordan I believe. Maybe this is his guilty conscience trying to give meaning to the fact that he is fundamentally disagreeable?

[dead]

Re: Disagreeable personalities do not have an advantage in power at work (2020)

#25

"being disagreeable-that is, behaving in aggressive, selfish, and manipulative ways" - am I the only one finding this definition incorrect? I think a disagreeable person is one not willing to accept an opinion they find incorrect. None of the attributes they listed seem relevant :) Or maybe I'm just being disagreeable

Agreeable/disagreeableness is a term of art in psychology based on the "Big Five" personality traits.

Re: Disagreeable personalities do not have an advantage in power at work (2020)

#26

> If disagreeableness does not help individuals attain power, why do so many people believe that nice guys (and gals) finish last? Given our studies focused on the attainment of power, does disagreeableness help people maintain power once they possess it? This study seems like common sense. Extroverted people who are agreeable climb the fastest. People confuse disagreeable with “asshole”. Most assholes can be agreeab…

Extraversion is completely separate from agreeableness in psychology. They are independent personality traits based on the Big Five model (which is the most scientifically supported model).

Re: Disagreeable personalities do not have an advantage in power at work (2020)

#27

"being disagreeable-that is, behaving in aggressive, selfish, and manipulative ways" - am I the only one finding this definition incorrect? I think a disagreeable person is one not willing to accept an opinion they find incorrect. None of the attributes they listed seem relevant :) Or maybe I'm just being disagreeable

I think aggressive or maybe excessive is a part of that. When you're not willing to accept an opinion and just give up, it's one thing. If you put up a huge fight every single time, it's more of a problem.

I agree - this is how it is generally used, and usage determines the meaning of words. You cannot, in general, deduce the precise meaning of words from first principles or the dictionary definitions of related words.

'Opinionated' is a related word which does not mean exactly what it might seem from 'opinion'.

In academia, there is plenty of disagreement, mostly handled without being disagreeable.

Re: Disagreeable personalities do not have an advantage in power at work (2020)

#28
This is interesting because it counters the idea that someone has to be a jerk to get ahead. However I'm also not sure the study really examined the idea too well, and ended up feeling like it's the sort of thing that could be misinterpreted and overleveraged.

In my personal experience (which is limited) there's a certain constellation of organizational characteristics that leads to disagreeable individuals attaining power, and organizational "combativeness" isn't really it. I think "corruption" is closer, and good luck measuring that with a self report survey.

Then again, maybe the relevant issue isn't whether or not people who are jerks are more likely to attain power, it's than once they're there they're more likely to cause problems, and they're not less likely to attain power. So then them being in power is salient.

But then I think you have to ask, why aren't they less likely to attain power? Is this a case where a zero correlation is actually masking some mixture of processes, one positive in direction and the other negative? If so you'd think that certain settings would inhibit one or the other of those processes.

I guess I feel like this is a case where studying normative organizational dynamics in a cursory way could end up being really misleading.

Re: Disagreeable personalities do not have an advantage in power at work (2020)

#29
post #19

As a layman, possibly under the distant influence of Jordan Peterson, I thought "disagreeable" meant strong-willed, principled, uncompromising (on what one considers important), direct, etc., i.e. what the article probably designates as "combative"; and was surprised to see "selfish", "manipulative", and "deceitful" also lumped into this category. These seem to be so different personality traits...

> possibly under the distant influence of Jordan Peterson

Here's where you're going wrong.

Re: Disagreeable personalities do not have an advantage in power at work (2020)

#30
post #19

As a layman, possibly under the distant influence of Jordan Peterson, I thought "disagreeable" meant strong-willed, principled, uncompromising (on what one considers important), direct, etc., i.e. what the article probably designates as "combative"; and was surprised to see "selfish", "manipulative", and "deceitful" also lumped into this category. These seem to be so different personality traits...

I guess Jordan Peterson, which I consider a master of nonsense, has to go through the dictionary again. The Oxford Languages definition of disagreeable is: - upleasant or unenjoyable - unfriendly and bad tempered At least the first definition fits well with Jordan I believe. Maybe this is his guilty conscience trying to give meaning to the fact that he is fundamentally disagreeable?

> The Oxford Languages definition of disagreeable is:

General-purpose Oxford dictionaries are not the appropriate reference for a term from clinical psychology. Jordan uses the term "agreeableness", and, as its derivatives, adjectives "agreeable" and "disagreeable". If you consult psychology texts, e.g. Handbook of Personality Psychology [0], you will notice that what has been understood by it has varied: some interpreted it as conformity or compliance (which is more in line with the impression I got from Peterson), whereas others interpreted it as likeability or pleasantness, which is more in line with the title of the paper.

[0] - Its chapter on agreeableness is, luckily, available online at http://cachescan.bcub.ro/e-book/E1/580591/795-870.pdf

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