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When do we have a scientific fact?

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Re: When do we have a scientific fact?

#22

What a terrible, horrible, no-good article. Claiming to be able to arbitrate what is fact and what isn’t without even mentioning epistemology and all the open questions therein, the reason that science is a process and not an end result… very bad form for a professor of philosophy. Maybe he goes into the details in the book he’s flogging (his own book of course) but judging by tfa my confidence is low.

The article is an extended intro for a book the author has written. Perhaps the book mentions these things? Have you read it?

Re: When do we have a scientific fact?

#23
The article doesn't fulfill the promise of the title. Not only does it not explain how to identify a scientific fact (who samples the 95% "consensus" and who decides what to ask, for example?), it doesn't even define the term, despite multiple uses.

The reason is, of course, that there are no scientific facts. There are hypotheses, theories, and observations. There is a scientific method, which attempts to connect them together.

This is a deeply unsettling perspective to a lot of people who demand something science can't deliver but which religion can, and I'd count the author among them.

Whenever an author starts tooting about "scientific facts" I sense an agenda. And it's often followed by demands that I submit to it.

Elsewhere, the author pitches the book like so:

> My new book Identifying Future-Proof Science argues that we can confidently identify many scientific claims that are future-proof: they will last forever (so long as science continues). Examples include the evolution of human beings from fish, and the fact that the Milky Way is a spiral galaxy. ...

https://petervickersphilosophy.com/publications/

The first claim is laughable. Without a path for abiogenesis (there is none yet), claims this specific about evolution are anything but "fact." And the tautology of classifying the Milky Way galaxy as a galaxy makes me wonder if the author has problems with basic logic.

Re: When do we have a scientific fact?

#24

Allow me to save you a click: "established scientific facts can be identified via a solid (>95%) international scientific consensus"

Is that really a fact? It seems like _scientific fact_ is a misnomer. Nothing can ever be a fact in science, even with 95% consensus.

Re: When do we have a scientific fact?

#25

The article doesn't fulfill the promise of the title. Not only does it not explain how to identify a scientific fact (who samples the 95% "consensus" and who decides what to ask, for example?), it doesn't even define the term, despite multiple uses. The reason is, of course, that there are no scientific facts. There are hypotheses, theories, and observations. There is a scientific method, which attempts to connect th…

[deleted]

Re: When do we have a scientific fact?

#26

>The story is a long one, but for now let’s skip to the end: future-proof, established scientific facts can be identified via a solid (>95%) international scientific consensus, born of scientific labour, in a community that is large and diverse. In the entire history of science, no claim meeting these criteria has ever been overturned, despite enormous opportunity for that to happen (if it were ever going to happen).…

International scientific consensus, in the past, had a man murdered for proving the earth orbiting the sun.

Huh? Copernicus died in his home when he was in his 70s. Galileo died of old age as well. Tycho Brahe died from politeness.

Bruno was burned because he was a hermetic mystic and didn't really prove anything significant about the planets.

Re: When do we have a scientific fact?

#27

This very lightweight article doesn't touch on why Popper and Kuhn were so influential (although I'm partial to Imre Lakatos, who tried to rescue Popper from Kuhn). If you aren't familiar with the Logical Positivists and their approach to science, it's valuable background to understanding the debates. The article shows that the West has not really come to terms with rejecting divine revelation and the end of absolute…

Shout out to Lakatos!

Re: When do we have a scientific fact?

#28
The article portrays Popperian falsifiability as a negative thing, when in fact it is exactly the kind of defining criterion that the author is hunting for. Except it is a criterion of a scientific _theory_ , not a fact derived from it; because the natural sciences are entirely empirical disciplines (today), theories can only be _disproved_ , not proved, by experiments. Progress - in the form of convergence towards truth among the community of experts (Peirce) - is achieved by revising theories. Like with software, there comes a point when tweaking the old implementation becomes frustrating, and it's time for a re-write from scratch - that'd be a Kuhn-style change of paradigm a la Einstein's theory of relativity. Different from the realm of software, older theories (e.g. Newtonian physics) remain valid and often useful for some restricted scope.

The author Peter Vickers appears to have written this blog post motivated by a recent line of work that resulted in a book that came out entitled "Identifying Future-Proof Science": https://academic.oup.com/book/44533?login=false (2022, Oxford University Press); putting it in my shopping basket/on my 2023 reading list & curious to hear from anyone who has read it already.

Crazy idea: I propose someone collect a list of facts - e.g. a wiki - that actual scientists can sign individually (e.g. owners of academic email addresses that do not contain a .stud. sub-string). My contribution of a fact: "On earth, any fruit of _malus domestica_ (commonly called "apple") that is dropped will fall down" (which means from the height of any person towards the centre of earth) as long as (small print to establish the boundary conditions of Newtonian physics).

Re: When do we have a scientific fact?

#29

>The story is a long one, but for now let’s skip to the end: future-proof, established scientific facts can be identified via a solid (>95%) international scientific consensus, born of scientific labour, in a community that is large and diverse. In the entire history of science, no claim meeting these criteria has ever been overturned, despite enormous opportunity for that to happen (if it were ever going to happen).…

> Do not mistake "useful" for "true."

As far as theories are concerned, "useful" means "makes valid predictions", so true, but within a limited scope (Newtonian physics: macroscopic events, from a human perspective).

Re: When do we have a scientific fact?

#30
The author seems disturbed that science fact is socially constructed. His solution is an appeal to social construction. He has not moved the ball by doing this. In fact, he's lost yardage, because now science would have to come together in consensus over his arbitrary 95% rule... which would be yet another social process... just to arrive at an ongoing popularity measurement process. Yuck.

Seems like nothing he said really contradicts Kuhn. Kuhn agreed that normal science operates within a particular paradigm; and in that paradigm there are accepted facts. What we can't know is whether a new paradigm might emerge that rearranges sensory phenomena into a different set of facts that "makes more sense" in some way, or allows certain puzzles to be solved that cannot otherwise be solved. If enough of those puzzles can be resolved in the new paradigm compared the old, the stage is set for scientific revolution.

There must be a stable reality of some kind, because when we operate as if there is, we are perpetually rewarded. But how we think about that reality is not necessarily stable. Oxygen definitely exists. But remember that the guy who discovered oxygen never called it by that name. The original term was "dephlogisticated air" which is a reference to the completely discredited phlogiston theory.

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