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More use of Rust is inevitable in open source software

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Re: More use of Rust is inevitable in open source software

#21

Post by eternityforest »

bsaul wrote: post #13

After trying rust only for a few hours i really wonder how come this language remain the most loved one on surveys. From the outside it looks like a niche language you'd only use for super constrained or critical environments. Take backend dev for example: unless you're trying to squeeze the last drop of performance from your CPU, most concurrency issues are usually dealt with at the middleware level (DB, Queue, Ngin…

It's competing with C/C++/Go/Nim/Zig, not Python and JS.

I don't use it because I don't have a need for low level coding on platforms with mature Rust support, but if I did I am pretty sure it would be my language of choice without hesitation.

Re: More use of Rust is inevitable in open source software

#22

Post by simplotek »

newpavlov wrote: post #14
bsaul wrote: post #13

After trying rust only for a few hours i really wonder how come this language remain the most loved one on surveys. From the outside it looks like a niche language you'd only use for super constrained or critical environments. Take backend dev for example: unless you're trying to squeeze the last drop of performance from your CPU, most concurrency issues are usually dealt with at the middleware level (DB, Queue, Ngin…

>After trying rust only for a few hours i really wonder how come this language remain the most loved one on surveys Arguably, it's because you tried it "only for a few hours". Rust has a relatively steep learning curve and it usually takes several months to become comfortable with it. But once you get over it, it often becomes quite hard to return to your previous languages, be it Python or C/C++. Yes, there are task…

> Arguably, it's because you tried it "only for a few hours". Rust has a relatively steep learning curve and it usually takes several months to become comfortable with it. But once you get over it, it often becomes quite hard to return to your previous languages, be it Python or C/C++.

You failed to address OP's point.

OP wondered why would he, or anyone, subject anyone else to a steep learning curve if there are no meaningful advantages to be gained.

As OP mentioned:

> Take backend dev for example: unless you're trying to squeeze the last drop of performance from your CPU, most concurrency issues are usually dealt with at the middleware level (DB, Queue, Nginx, etc), and most performance issues are usually I/O related.

Why do you believe that doubling down on a whole new programming language and tech stack would help address the fact that you do not benefit from any of it's sales pitches?

Honestly, your comment reads like a boilerplate reply to any criticism of Rust that presumes Rust's only problem is it's developer experience caused by it's learning curve but once that's behind anyone it's somehow the ideal solution for any imaginable scenario.

Re: More use of Rust is inevitable in open source software

#23

Post by xcdzvyn »

hitekker wrote: post #2

This article is pretty shallow. Despite the interesting title, the author is lukewarm on Rust, hasn’t used Rust that much, and hasn’t explored the space of C replacement OSS. Not enough expertise for an insight; it feels half “go with the flow”, half FOMO.

I agree. Of course Rust is going to see "more use", it's popular right now. But that's really the only claim I can see the author making. Or maybe they're making a point about Zig I can't parse; It doesn't have strong memory safety guarantees, and so... something?

Re: More use of Rust is inevitable in open source software

#25

Post by unrealhoang »

Kukumber wrote: post #20
pjmlp wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A language that isn't pushed in some form, big corporation, zealots or killer framework, usually dies. No famous mainstream language in use today, has ever been adopted based on "it happens on it's own due to it's usability and features". Before you rush out to write something like C, remember that it only came to use thanks to AT&T, Bell Labs and UNIX.

exactly, and so far rust is being pushed by evangelists and pseudo-journalists rust wants to penetrate the industry by-proxy rather than with interesting tech/projects Mozilla gave up rewriting firefox in rust Embark gave up writing their new game engine in rust

Google put up 1.5M Rust LOC in Android runtime and seeing number of serious exploitations reduced, a single developer created a stable gpu kernel driver in only 3 months are definitely interesting results. Even in your example, firefox’s Rust code amount is catching up with C/C++.

You just don’t see what you don’t wanna see.

Re: More use of Rust is inevitable in open source software

#26

Post by hulitu »

Is Rust made by the CIA ? Because is sure has a lot of propaganda behind it.

OTOH is very slow to compile.

One advice for people wanting more adoption for Rust: don't write existing programs: shells, cat, ls, etc. We already have them. Write new programs which will be useful to a lot of people. And then the adoption will occur naturally.

Re: More use of Rust is inevitable in open source software

#27

Post by hulitu »

unrealhoang wrote: post #25
Kukumber wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

exactly, and so far rust is being pushed by evangelists and pseudo-journalists rust wants to penetrate the industry by-proxy rather than with interesting tech/projects Mozilla gave up rewriting firefox in rust Embark gave up writing their new game engine in rust

Google put up 1.5M Rust LOC in Android runtime and seeing number of serious exploitations reduced, a single developer created a stable gpu kernel driver in only 3 months are definitely interesting results. Even in your example, firefox’s Rust code amount is catching up with C/C++. You just don’t see what you don’t wanna see.

The Android runtime does not really excel in performance.

Re: More use of Rust is inevitable in open source software

#28

Post by childintime »

xigoi wrote: post #16
Communitivity wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rust has a unique experience. Initially you hate it, right up to the point where you grok it, then you love it because you realize it save you from so many boneheaded errors that C/C++ allow you to do easily. You can still do them in Rust, but you can't do them unintentionally (generally). The borrow checker, the forced composition over inheritance, and the trait mechanisms are major wins.

I tried Rust once and found it pretty interesting. The moment I left was when I wanted to write a simple web scraper, so I found a library, installed it… and found out that it had downloaded a gigabyte of dependencies.

I find it incredible that when I try out a project, it easily pulls in a GB of files. It's a space and bandwidth junkie. I long for a lo-fi version, fully UNoptimized but fast.

My doubt is if it'll work over a basic mobile phone connection, and that lots of folks in developing countries, as I also will be soon, will be left out because of this behavior.

Re: More use of Rust is inevitable in open source software

#29

Post by pjmlp »

Kukumber wrote: post #20
pjmlp wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A language that isn't pushed in some form, big corporation, zealots or killer framework, usually dies. No famous mainstream language in use today, has ever been adopted based on "it happens on it's own due to it's usability and features". Before you rush out to write something like C, remember that it only came to use thanks to AT&T, Bell Labs and UNIX.

exactly, and so far rust is being pushed by evangelists and pseudo-journalists rust wants to penetrate the industry by-proxy rather than with interesting tech/projects Mozilla gave up rewriting firefox in rust Embark gave up writing their new game engine in rust

Mozilla gave up on Firefox with lots of completly useless activities burning their bank accounts, Rust suffered by association.

Here, Embark new game engine in Rust hasn't gone anywhere,

https://medium.com/embarkstudios/embarks-creative-playground...

It even got a new release quite recently,

"we here at Embark been using this for over a year in production now for our Creative Playground & custom Rust engine that uses Vulkan, and hope it can be of use for more developers as we continue to build it out."

-- https://old.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/zrskiq/rustgpu_v04_re...

Yes they are also using Unreal for other titles, plenty of studios have more than one engine.

Re: More use of Rust is inevitable in open source software

#30

Post by pjmlp »

hulitu wrote: post #27
unrealhoang wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google put up 1.5M Rust LOC in Android runtime and seeing number of serious exploitations reduced, a single developer created a stable gpu kernel driver in only 3 months are definitely interesting results. Even in your example, firefox’s Rust code amount is catching up with C/C++. You just don’t see what you don’t wanna see.

The Android runtime does not really excel in performance.

Says whose numbers?
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