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When did our tools become our religion?

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Re: When did our tools become our religion?

#21

Post by chongli »

exmadscientist wrote: post #11
jdeaton wrote: post #4

> It is rather simple: The tools don't matter. Its hard to read past nonsense like this.

It's entirely true, though. If you can deliver good work, on time, integrating well with your team (as applicable), then no one cares what tools you used or generally how you did it. It might be very important to you, and you can absolutely spend time on getting your setup right for you, but you should not make the mistake of thinking that anyone else cares.

No it isn't. The Romans were every bit as smart as we are today. The biggest difference between us and them is our tools.

Similarly, compare the computers of the 60's (or even the 80's) to the computers of today. The difference in outcomes reflects the difference in capabilities.

Re: When did our tools become our religion?

#22

Post by madrox »

bloblaw wrote: post #16

FTA: > Otherwise, the only thing that matters is that the tool works. Every tool comes with its own upsides and downsides, but most of them are increasingly the same. They mostly differ in workflow. But I can promise you: they all draw rectangles equally as well. If you can accomplish your work with the tool, then it serves its purpose. Eevee dismissed with that argument succinctly when they wrote in their "PHP: a fr…

I've heard it differently, but is a corollary: bad tools make it easy for bad developers to do bad things. Good tools make it easy for bad developers to do good things.

Re: When did our tools become our religion?

#23

Post by falcolas »

jdeaton wrote: post #4

> It is rather simple: The tools don't matter. Its hard to read past nonsense like this.

People can - do, and always have done - work around tool deficiencies.

Once you're familiar with a tool, the simple act of moving to another tool will be what slows you down, but you'll get back up to speed soon enough.

The only place tool choice really matters is when you're part of a team who has to pass their work around. If you're not using the same tool - whichever tool it may be - it adds needless friction.

Re: When did our tools become our religion?

#24

Post by afarrell »

chongli wrote: post #21
exmadscientist wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's entirely true, though. If you can deliver good work, on time, integrating well with your team (as applicable), then no one cares what tools you used or generally how you did it. It might be very important to you, and you can absolutely spend time on getting your setup right for you, but you should not make the mistake of thinking that anyone else cares.

No it isn't. The Romans were every bit as smart as we are today. The biggest difference between us and them is our tools. Similarly, compare the computers of the 60's (or even the 80's) to the computers of today. The difference in outcomes reflects the difference in capabilities.

The Romans were not as smart as us because they did not have the tools to understand the neurological effect of lead poisoning.

Re: When did our tools become our religion?

#25

Post by dasil003 »

Meh. This is a lot of words to express a mentality that may be more pithily summed up by the idiom "it's a poor craftsman that blames his tools". I happen to agree, but I don't see any value in convincing the world it's true.

There's a certain irony in arguing that designers spend too much energy in religious wars about tools. Is it a better use of time to argue about such meta questions?

My respect for a designer is 100% based on their output. Whether they are deeply about tools or they just use whatever is in front of them is utterly irrelevant. Who am I to judge someone else's process? Creativity comes from individual agency and can never come from the thought police or people who are primarily driven by a need for consensus.

Re: When did our tools become our religion?

#27

Post by deltree7 »

(Forming of a ) Religion is always a 4 step process.

i) Use a Framework/Tool/Process/Guideline rules to better your life.

ii) Feeling of elation/enlightenment when it provides that dopamine hit because it does provide benefits compared to before.

iii) The innate human nature to share the Framework/Tool/Process/Guidelines with others (and forming an opinion of them being idiots for not seeing the obvious benefits)

iv) The innate human nature to bond together on this shared experience and also seek social validation.

It applies from Christianity to Emacs.

Re: When did our tools become our religion?

#28

Post by falcolas »

chongli wrote: post #21
exmadscientist wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's entirely true, though. If you can deliver good work, on time, integrating well with your team (as applicable), then no one cares what tools you used or generally how you did it. It might be very important to you, and you can absolutely spend time on getting your setup right for you, but you should not make the mistake of thinking that anyone else cares.

No it isn't. The Romans were every bit as smart as we are today. The biggest difference between us and them is our tools. Similarly, compare the computers of the 60's (or even the 80's) to the computers of today. The difference in outcomes reflects the difference in capabilities.

> The biggest difference between us and them is our tools.

Technology (gained throughout history) moreso than tools. For example, the Romans had concrete, (and it's a kind we still use occasionally), but we have about 1,000 different types of concrete, all with different mechanical properties and capabilities.

We have concrete water can flow freely through. We have concrete (well, more accurately techniques of building concrete forms) which has strength in tension. We have concrete which can bend, we have concrete which is astoundingly light. We have concrete we can can pump, and we have concrete which we can mechanically compact.

But when it comes to tools - aside from transporting concrete - we still use forms, screeding boards, and trowels in a dozen different shapes. Even the best concrete surfacing tools are trowels spun with a motor.

Re: When did our tools become our religion?

#29

Post by falcolas »

afarrell wrote: post #24
chongli wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it isn't. The Romans were every bit as smart as we are today. The biggest difference between us and them is our tools. Similarly, compare the computers of the 60's (or even the 80's) to the computers of today. The difference in outcomes reflects the difference in capabilities.

The Romans were not as smart as us because they did not have the tools to understand the neurological effect of lead poisoning.

They realized they were being poisoned, but they had the cause confused - they blamed it on acidic foods, since non-acidic foods wouldn't leech much lead out of their utensils.

Re: When did our tools become our religion?

#30

Post by akiselev »

deltree7 wrote: post #27

(Forming of a ) Religion is always a 4 step process. i) Use a Framework/Tool/Process/Guideline rules to better your life. ii) Feeling of elation/enlightenment when it provides that dopamine hit because it does provide benefits compared to before. iii) The innate human nature to share the Framework/Tool/Process/Guidelines with others (and forming an opinion of them being idiots for not seeing the obvious benefits) iv)…

Where humanity goes, evil [1] follows.

[1] https://github.com/emacs-evil/evil

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