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Female spies of MI6

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Re: Female spies of MI6

#21

Post by giantg2 »

s5300 wrote: post #16
giantg2 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah... not a good idea. That's the type of info you might divulge on your deathbed to adult children. Absolutely insane to tell teens while still working there.

Between a duty to family & country, which should truly come first in our short lives? Had her children ever accidentally found out at near any time in their lives, they may have never been able to trust their mother again - severing what arguably should be one of the strongest bonds one can have. Would you (rhetorically) find it reasonable that she, or anybody with children, is required to live with that thought in t…

"they may have never been able to trust their mother again"

That's a real stretch. Anyone with the maturity to understand that information should also have the maturity to delineate between lies for inconsequential things in the sake of national security vs personal lies affecting their lives.

"Between a duty to family & country,"

The logic goes that duties to country are inclusive of duties to family because without a stable country your family is less protected. That's what they say. Whether you agree or not is another matter. Not agreeing means that job likely wasn't for you anyways.

Re: Female spies of MI6

#24

Post by etrevino »

giantg2 wrote: post #11
thefounder wrote: post #9

>> When her children were teenagers, Rebecca decided to tell them that she was a spy. “They were super sensible, and I judged the information wasn’t going to be a burden for them, that they wouldn’t tell everybody.” Is Rebecca still working there?

Yeah... not a good idea. That's the type of info you might divulge on your deathbed to adult children. Absolutely insane to tell teens while still working there.

I can speak as someone who was in the same situation as the teens. This is about the time that the kids begin to cotton on to the fact that things aren't quite right. Really, this is the point at which the parent has to start lying (as opposed to saying something like "oh I work for the government") or trust to their children's discretion. The kids' entire raising up to this point has normalized strong patriotism and a parents' inconsistent presence as a result of that patriotism. This likely came as no real shock to them.

This is a different world and I didn't realize how different until I went away to college.

Re: Female spies of MI6

#25

Post by [deleted] »

giantg2 wrote: post #11
thefounder wrote: post #9

>> When her children were teenagers, Rebecca decided to tell them that she was a spy. “They were super sensible, and I judged the information wasn’t going to be a burden for them, that they wouldn’t tell everybody.” Is Rebecca still working there?

Yeah... not a good idea. That's the type of info you might divulge on your deathbed to adult children. Absolutely insane to tell teens while still working there.

[deleted]

Re: Female spies of MI6

#26

Post by jacquesm »

LilBytes wrote: post #8
j-bos wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wasn't the Bond Q named after the real Q?

Based on this article, Bond Q came first.

Interesting. Fleming actually worked for Naval Intelligence, I always thought he took those terms from there. The 'M' allegedly came from his mom.

Re: Female spies of MI6

#27

Post by WaitWaitWha »

> For the first time ever, SIS officers reveal why women often make the best spies for our times

I was unable to find where this was answered in the article. It also reads like the author relied mostly on novels, movies, and such instead on a the interview.

Women spies have been around just as much, if not longer - Virginia Hall, Mata Hari, Jane Whorwood, Elizabeth Van Lew, Anne Dawson, Violette Szabo. Going even further back consider the Japanese kunoichi (sp?), Empress Wei of China had a whole cadre of female spies. There are plenty of evidence of female spies in Ancient Greece, and in the Roman empire. There are Biblical stories of female spies.

Indeed there are novels & movies that depict female spies in a sexual way (and just as many depicting men as simple fighting machines) but pretending that women where not allowed to be spies is a disservice to women.

Re: Female spies of MI6

#28

Post by etrevino »

s5300 wrote: post #16
giantg2 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah... not a good idea. That's the type of info you might divulge on your deathbed to adult children. Absolutely insane to tell teens while still working there.

Between a duty to family & country, which should truly come first in our short lives? Had her children ever accidentally found out at near any time in their lives, they may have never been able to trust their mother again - severing what arguably should be one of the strongest bonds one can have. Would you (rhetorically) find it reasonable that she, or anybody with children, is required to live with that thought in t…

I replied to the parent comment above, but it's worth replying to this. The kids might not know what mom did before this, but the way the mother operates was long ago normalized for them. The mother probably never lied-- they usually don't-- she probably just never shared. What the mother does is a job that isn't necessarily in conflict with her love for her children. People have to balance the effort they put into their job (as opposed to the effort they put into their children) all the time. She still gets to make that choice, at least in the US and the UK (as is the case here). That choice may cost her her job, but that's true of any job.

This is all to say, it's highly doubtful that this had the impact to their relationship that you're imagining here.

Re: Female spies of MI6

#29

Post by foobarian »

ZseeBrz wrote: post #12

There's a very good book in French on the same topic (Espionnes by Dalila Kerchouche). The author interviewed several women in the various FR services (DGSE, DGSI, etc.) in various leadership and non-leadership positions. If you can read French, you will find it very interesting. It's both a cultural trip and partial demystification of the trade.

On that note just wanted to also plug the fantastic French spy show "The Bureau" [1]. It's fiction but loved the characters and the scheming, and more high level, a glimpse into the French flavor of the CIA/MI6 verticals.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bureau_(TV_series)

Re: Female spies of MI6

#30

Post by martopix »

WaitWaitWha wrote: post #27

> For the first time ever, SIS officers reveal why women often make the best spies for our times I was unable to find where this was answered in the article. It also reads like the author relied mostly on novels, movies, and such instead on a the interview. Women spies have been around just as much, if not longer - Virginia Hall, Mata Hari, Jane Whorwood, Elizabeth Van Lew, Anne Dawson, Violette Szabo. Going even fur…

> I was unable to find where this was answered in the article.

For example here it makes an explicit point:

"The UK’s main adversaries today — China, Russia, Iran and North Korea — are repressive societies with few women in positions of power. For the female spy, this weakness in the enemy is exploitable. Precisely because they are so likely to be overlooked, women have the potential to be the best spies of all."

> pretending that women where not allowed to be spies is a disservice to women.

Where does it say they were not allowed? Mata Hari is explicitly discussed in the article. A lot of examples in MI6 itself are made, but the article talks at length about how their careers were more difficult.

> It also reads like the author relied mostly on novels, movies, and such instead on a the interview.

I think the article is amazing. It literally interviewed three of the top british spies. How can you say that? And the last paragraph is all about all the things that the author could not cover.

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