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Vancouver Special

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Re: Vancouver Special

#21

Post by cperciva »

SnowProblem wrote: post #12
cperciva wrote: post #7

A few details not mentioned in the article: 1. The Vancouver Special originated as a way to evade zoning regulations. The lower floor is 18" below grade which qualified it as a "basement" not counting towards floor area ratio calculations. 2. Once the design became widespread, the building permitting process was streamlined -- there was no need for a detailed review of plans if they were identical to previously appro…

Not so cheap anymore! They go for $2M each today which seems insane to me.

Not the house itself! A typical property tax assessment on a Vancouver Special is $2M of land and $50k of building.

Re: Vancouver Special

#22

Post by ripley12 »

cperciva wrote: post #7

A few details not mentioned in the article: 1. The Vancouver Special originated as a way to evade zoning regulations. The lower floor is 18" below grade which qualified it as a "basement" not counting towards floor area ratio calculations. 2. Once the design became widespread, the building permitting process was streamlined -- there was no need for a detailed review of plans if they were identical to previously appro…

Another thing I'd add: The Vancouver Special arguably led to the legalization of secondary suites across Vancouver.

Their design was optimized for 2 suites even though they were usually built in single-family zoning districts; enforcement of the 1-family rule was fairly lax: https://twitter.com/GRIDSVancouver/status/134921351159592140...

It led to a situation where the law was at odds with reality on the ground (tens of thousands of people living in technically-illegal suites), and I think that was a huge factor in Vancouver's decision to (finally) legalize secondary suites across the city in 2004.

Re: Vancouver Special

#23

Post by cperciva »

blincoln wrote: post #9
cperciva wrote: post #7

A few details not mentioned in the article: 1. The Vancouver Special originated as a way to evade zoning regulations. The lower floor is 18" below grade which qualified it as a "basement" not counting towards floor area ratio calculations. 2. Once the design became widespread, the building permitting process was streamlined -- there was no need for a detailed review of plans if they were identical to previously appro…

Not sure if this is still the case ~25 years later, but when I lived in Vancouver in the late 90s, a lot of those DIY-finished basements were set up as (probably off-the-books) rental units to help cover the homeowners' mortgages. I lived in one of those for about a year in-between actual apartments, and always thought it was weird how it was just slightly below grade. Thank you for solving that mystery :).

The first generation of Vancouver Special owners were largely families who occupied the entire property. By the late 90s either their kids had moved out and they had space to spare or they sold their homes (at much higher prices!) to families who needed to help pay the mortgage.

BTW the "slightly below grade" situation is helped by Vancouver having lots of hills -- in many cases the front door is at grade even though the average ground level is 18" higher.

Re: Vancouver Special

#24

Post by mugsie »

ido wrote: post #16
papandada wrote: post #3

I'm shocked by the memories that photo has unlocked. Early 90s road trip with my parents to their friends' living in Vancouver. Sleepless nights in the summer heat and humidity with no AC. All while reading Cliff Stoll's classic The Cuckoo's Egg.

Sleepless nights in the summer heat in Vancouver? Was this during a heatwave? Because average highs in July-August in Vancouver are just 22.2c: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vancouver#Climate

I have had quite a few sleepless nights in Vancouver over summers, and I don't live there, so I must have hit a heatwave every time I was there ....

Re: Vancouver Special

#25

Post by ripley12 »

Patrick_Devine wrote: post #20

The concept of a cheap, post-war house that you can finish out yourself is great... for certain places. There isn't really room in Vancouver for them any more, as [Vancouverism]( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vancouverism ) has taken over much of the city (i.e. low podium of 2-4 floors with a slender 100m tower). Vancouver's biggest problem right now is housing affordability, and "the missing middle" (i.e. 20-30m hig…

> Vancouverism has taken over much of the city

There are plenty of towers downtown but the rest of Vancouver (i.e. most of the city by land area) is still zoned for suburban levels of density: https://twitter.com/Scott_dLB/status/1599177703466610688

Re: Vancouver Special

#26

Post by ripley12 »

cperciva wrote: post #23
blincoln wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if this is still the case ~25 years later, but when I lived in Vancouver in the late 90s, a lot of those DIY-finished basements were set up as (probably off-the-books) rental units to help cover the homeowners' mortgages. I lived in one of those for about a year in-between actual apartments, and always thought it was weird how it was just slightly below grade. Thank you for solving that mystery :).

The first generation of Vancouver Special owners were largely families who occupied the entire property. By the late 90s either their kids had moved out and they had space to spare or they sold their homes (at much higher prices!) to families who needed to help pay the mortgage. BTW the "slightly below grade" situation is helped by Vancouver having lots of hills -- in many cases the front door is at grade even though…

> The first generation of Vancouver Special owners were largely families who occupied the entire property.

I guess it's hard to get exact numbers on this, but the things I've read suggest that a lot of Vancouver Specials had multiple households right from the start. e.g. Barbara Pettit's excellent thesis:

"By the 1970s, the Special had a distinctive style and was spreading throughout the east side as the "popular plan." Neighbourhoods changed beyond recognition, and residents began complaining about its size, its appearance and its use as a multi-family dwelling."

https://open.library.ubc.ca/soa/cIRcle/collections/ubctheses...

Re: Vancouver Special

#27

Post by bombcar »

cperciva wrote: post #23
blincoln wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if this is still the case ~25 years later, but when I lived in Vancouver in the late 90s, a lot of those DIY-finished basements were set up as (probably off-the-books) rental units to help cover the homeowners' mortgages. I lived in one of those for about a year in-between actual apartments, and always thought it was weird how it was just slightly below grade. Thank you for solving that mystery :).

The first generation of Vancouver Special owners were largely families who occupied the entire property. By the late 90s either their kids had moved out and they had space to spare or they sold their homes (at much higher prices!) to families who needed to help pay the mortgage. BTW the "slightly below grade" situation is helped by Vancouver having lots of hills -- in many cases the front door is at grade even though…

That "grade" situation is especially fun in very hilly areas - I remember a relative's house in Seattle somewhere that had three "ground floor doors" on different levels because the hill was so steep.

Even relatively flat terrain can have "walk out basements" which make what is technically a basement feel more like a ground floor.

Re: Vancouver Special

#28

Post by seanmcdirmid »

ghostpepper wrote: post #19
SnowProblem wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not so cheap anymore! They go for $2M each today which seems insane to me.

The Vancouver housing market is really insane when you compare it to average salaries. New-grad software developer at a non-big-tech can expect the equivalent of $45k USD

NAFTA (or whatever succeeded it) allows many of those Canadian SWEs to go south for better pay (e.g. Seattle), and a lot of them do. It isn't great situation all around (Vancouver loses talent because they don't want to pay for it).

Re: Vancouver Special

#29

Post by Tokkemon »

I grew up in a prewar house in EastVan but the neighborhood had a lot of these houses around it, usually filled with East Asian or Indian immigrants. Taking the Skytrain was so fun as a kid. It was certainly a unique experience. The big culture shock for me was moving to New York and having to deal with large five-floor walkups in Queens, but the diversity was just the same. And the subway was so much bigger.

Truth be told, while I have a lot of nostalgia of the Vancouver of the 90s, I've since been back to visit and if given the choice, I would pick living in New York every time.

Re: Vancouver Special

#30

Post by monkpit »

srhngpr wrote: post #10
cperciva wrote: post #7

A few details not mentioned in the article: 1. The Vancouver Special originated as a way to evade zoning regulations. The lower floor is 18" below grade which qualified it as a "basement" not counting towards floor area ratio calculations. 2. Once the design became widespread, the building permitting process was streamlined -- there was no need for a detailed review of plans if they were identical to previously appro…

Thanks for the added context! Would be great to contribute these details to the wiki page as well

Just cite the comment as the source and you’re golden.
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