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The best leaders are great individual contributors, not professional managers

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Re: The best leaders are great individual contributors, not professional managers

#21
post #5

This is true but nuanced in my experience. Often the best managers look around, see other managers being incompetent and messing up people’s natural abilities, and want to fix the problem even if it requires them to become managers. Often the worst managers decide at a young age they’re good leaders, can lead people to do better than they would themselves, and decide they want to get into management. I make this dist…

I’d say the worst managers are the ones who decide that management is the best path to money, competence and effort be damned.

>management is the best path to money, competence and effort be damned

Basically every German company ever. ICs be dammed.

Re: The best leaders are great individual contributors, not professional managers

#22

Empirically speaking 90% of the managers out there became so because they were intentional in becoming managers. The reasons are myriad. Most want the power so they can hire or fire. Others with reaching the job safety inherently built into the role.

A lot of IC historically become managers not because they particularly care about doing performance reviews but because they want more influence and to work at a larger scale. This leads to a situation of people managers who care less about managing people than managing delivery and technology strategy. The best of those also have a lot of empathy and inadvertently are good at people management.

Another reason, often related in my experience, is a lot of companies careers plateau for ICs pretty early on. Your comp stops growing beyond COLA, titles exhaust, and despite being young you’re at a terminal career velocity. The only thing way to break up is to become management. This isn’t surprising - who controls promotion and comp other than managers, and why on earth wouldn’t they structure things to reward themselves and people like them? There are many companies that have recognized this and created IC paths parallel to management, at least up to the C level. However the relative difficulty in achieving them is disproportionately weighted against the IC vs manager. At Amazon there’s a crap ton of VP and Director managers. But it’s absurdly hard to get senior principal or distinguished engineer. The rationale is they want to keep the prestige of the level high for IC. But that’s weird - the prestige of the same level in management must therefore be low and why is the bar different for the same level if you’re managing vs building?

Re: The best leaders are great individual contributors, not professional managers

#23
post #6

Being a manager is like having kids. A lot of people don't want to have kids, because they see how other people's kids behave. You can do the right things and raise incredible children. A lot of people don't want to be a manager, because they see how other people behave as managers. You can do the right things and be an incredible manager.

I think this is wrong and is an unhealthy way to look at management. Comparing workers to kids is.. not defensible.

Re: The best leaders are great individual contributors, not professional managers

#24

I wonder what kind of people are these Steve Jobs cultists... Most of the "wisdom" of all "Steve Jobs said..." is just subjective interpretation of vague and ambiguous statements. Truth, the guy had a lot of successes. But if you look at them most were just accidental and he only recognized them as success when they hit him in the face. * Apple didn't "invent" the Mac, all of it's technologies were copied straight ou…

I'm predisposed to dislike Steve Jobs (I'm predisposed to dislike anyone who exploits other people tbh, so virtually all high-profile CEO).

But there's already 5 pretty big successes in your list. At which point it stops being statically improbable he isn't exceptionally talented by some kind of metric?

Re: The best leaders are great individual contributors, not professional managers

#26
As a manager, I want to see myself in what he said because I really enjoy writing code and engineering solutions. But honestly , I don’t think the “want to” matters all that much when it comes to management.

I do think many good managers are problem solvers. They are often hands-on, in the thick of ideation and problem-solving.

They have the knowledge necessary to evaluate the competence and solutions submitted by the people being managed. And that knowledge and skill also helps them understand what their reports need to succeed.

Re: The best leaders are great individual contributors, not professional managers

#27
post #6

Being a manager is like having kids. A lot of people don't want to have kids, because they see how other people's kids behave. You can do the right things and raise incredible children. A lot of people don't want to be a manager, because they see how other people behave as managers. You can do the right things and be an incredible manager.

As a manager, most of what I do that's good is nearly invisible; when I do clown something, it's usually highly visible.

Re: The best leaders are great individual contributors, not professional managers

#28

I wonder what kind of people are these Steve Jobs cultists... Most of the "wisdom" of all "Steve Jobs said..." is just subjective interpretation of vague and ambiguous statements. Truth, the guy had a lot of successes. But if you look at them most were just accidental and he only recognized them as success when they hit him in the face. * Apple didn't "invent" the Mac, all of it's technologies were copied straight ou…

> all of it's technologies were copied straight out of Xerox's

Not sure copied is the right word, Xerox bought shares of Apple and in return Apple got to use Xerox's tech.

Re: The best leaders are great individual contributors, not professional managers

#29

I wonder what kind of people are these Steve Jobs cultists... Most of the "wisdom" of all "Steve Jobs said..." is just subjective interpretation of vague and ambiguous statements. Truth, the guy had a lot of successes. But if you look at them most were just accidental and he only recognized them as success when they hit him in the face. * Apple didn't "invent" the Mac, all of it's technologies were copied straight ou…

Uh huh. Who exactly lives in the reality distortion field? You seem to have a lot of pent-up hate for a dead person.

Re: The best leaders are great individual contributors, not professional managers

#30
post #28

I wonder what kind of people are these Steve Jobs cultists... Most of the "wisdom" of all "Steve Jobs said..." is just subjective interpretation of vague and ambiguous statements. Truth, the guy had a lot of successes. But if you look at them most were just accidental and he only recognized them as success when they hit him in the face. * Apple didn't "invent" the Mac, all of it's technologies were copied straight ou…

> all of it's technologies were copied straight out of Xerox's Not sure copied is the right word, Xerox bought shares of Apple and in return Apple got to use Xerox's tech.

True, but those are just the conditions on which Xerox accepted to be copied.

Xerox' acceptance to be copied doesn't change the fact that the whole concept of GUIs and LANs were alien to Apple.

Please note that I used the term "copied", not "stealed".

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