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The world of pipe fittings

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Re: The world of pipe fittings

#21

I've helped out with some plumbing work in an older house, and it's pretty fascinating to see the progression of technologies. 100 years ago, most drain pipes in the US were massive cast-iron pieces with no threads at all. They were mated together, then the joint was filled with a compound called oakum. To really hold it together, the plumber would pour molten lead on top of the oakum. Just taking that stuff apart is…

hemp fiber > PTFE tape

For sure. Those oakum + lead joints were problem-free a century after they were installed. How many of us can expect that from the things we do at work?

The only reason some of that pipe needed to be replaced was that it was fused (by rust) to mid-20th-century galvanized pipe that had rusted completely shut.

Re: The world of pipe fittings

#22
post #20

I had a major plumbing problem some time ago (leak in the house’s main line) and paid a plumber way too much to dig a hole and fix it. I of course wasn’t about to pay him to fill the hole back up, and while it was open I took a good look. That’s when I discovered PEX. PEX is wonderful: easy to work with, inexpensive, simple to fix if you screw something up. I wish all plumbing was PEX. I briefly installed an NPT flow…

What’s the one that leaks and you’re supposed to replace?

Probably polybutylene: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polybutylene

Re: The world of pipe fittings

#23

They're paid so much because you need to pay twice for the bad ones. My house's previous plumber threaded a copper line directly into the stainless steel DHW tank. That wasn't a problem, until it was.

I’ve never encountered a DHW tank made of stainless steel with stainless steel fittings.

The error that will destroy your pipes is to use anything copper in the condensate plumbing of a condensing boiler. Use PVC, CPVC or PEX (or stainless steel) with plastic fittings (PVC, CPVC, “engineered polymer”, or John Guest ProLock or similar). The high CO2 concentrations in the condensate will rapidly corrode copper.

Re: The world of pipe fittings

#25
post #20

I had a major plumbing problem some time ago (leak in the house’s main line) and paid a plumber way too much to dig a hole and fix it. I of course wasn’t about to pay him to fill the hole back up, and while it was open I took a good look. That’s when I discovered PEX. PEX is wonderful: easy to work with, inexpensive, simple to fix if you screw something up. I wish all plumbing was PEX. I briefly installed an NPT flow…

What’s the one that leaks and you’re supposed to replace?

Kitec: http://kitecsettlement.com/

Re: The world of pipe fittings

#26

I've helped out with some plumbing work in an older house, and it's pretty fascinating to see the progression of technologies. 100 years ago, most drain pipes in the US were massive cast-iron pieces with no threads at all. They were mated together, then the joint was filled with a compound called oakum. To really hold it together, the plumber would pour molten lead on top of the oakum. Just taking that stuff apart is…

> To really hold it together, the plumber would pour molten lead on top of the oakum.

This is pretty interesting, because plumbers are called 'lead-pourers' (loodgieters) in Dutch, and I had always wondered why.

Re: The world of pipe fittings

#27
The Teflon tape is only to be used as a friction modifier as NPT and other tapered threads seal on the threads. Reduced friction means that you can get enough load to deform the metal threads and create a seal. Be careful to not add tape to the first 2 threads as small pieces of Teflon tape can break off and get stuck into valves and things within appliances causing them to leak. There is nothing wrong with pipe dope and I find it to be superior though messy.

Annoyance for those in the states: Big box stores used to advertise fittings as NPT (National pipe thread). NPT being an ANSI spec. They seem to have switched to MIP and FIP for Male Iron Pipe and Female Iron Pipe. These are NPT as well but with a new name? Perhaps they are looking to avoid holding themselves to the spec?

Lead content in brass drinking water rated piping and fittings are being phazed out for obvious reasons. New low lead brass is stronger and does not deform as easily as the older leaded brass fittings. The result is that some fittings are now more difficult to tighten untill leak free.

Pex and crimped copper fittings are not without there own issues. Relying on an o-ring with a 30 year shelf life is problematic when the pipe is behind drywall.

Perhaps one day we will get laser welded copper fittings.

Re: The world of pipe fittings

#28
post #9

In case anyone from the US reads this, BSPP and BSPT fittings are rare and incredibly frustrating here, as our NPT (National Pipe Taper) threads are different and the selection of BSP(P/T) fittings is extremely poor in comparison. Also, I work with NPT fittings quite a lot: > For what it’s worth, I tightly wrap the tape 10 times round the male thread and get an enraged mountain gorilla to tighten it up. This is a WTF…

> Also, in my experience, when someone inexperienced first learns what pipe tape is, they try to apply it to everything.

That’s me. Whoops.

Re: The world of pipe fittings

#29
Cheap fittings from GENSYM sellers on Amazon/Ebay/Aliexpress will have crappy threads, which will cause you endless pain. I'm guessing this is what inspired the author's rant. I generally try to buy fittings from suppliers that have an incentive to do some quality control. If one thread in a joint isn't perfect you're probably fine, but when both are terribly out of spec, it will never seal.

I see the author used the word "spanner" so I assume they're British which is why they have to earnestly deal with BSP. For fellow Americans, don't get anything BSP/BSPP/BSPT unless you have to (eg hydraulics commonly use BSPP/G-thread, and the bonded rubber washer is not optional).

For pipe tape/dope, the important thing to know is their main purpose is to reduce friction so you can tighten a joint further, which deforms the threads more - packing the threads is a secondary effect. I generally do dope, then 2-3 wraps of tape (in the right direction, of course), then dope again. I generally use the thicker blue tape, but thinner white should be the same with a few more wraps. I learned this trick from an old timer at a hardware store, and it has definitely helped on some recalcitrant joints. I'd rather not find leaks after something is assembled, so I just take the time and do it on most every joint now. (For reference, I mostly deal with 1/4 - 1 inch NPT brass/stainless/copper threads).

Also, not every type of connection takes dope/tape! For example, while US showers generally have NPT-M coming out of the wall, the showerhead generally has a rubber washer that makes the seal, and thus does not need tape. Similarly with flare/compression fittings.

Also, plumbers get paid a lot because it's generally heavily regulated - water supply contamination is one of those things we've refined over centuries and now take for granted. The regulation means they get a middle class wage, which is prohibitively expensive for other individuals to pay owing to high taxes and other overhead. Imagine how much it would cost to hire yourself as a software engineer for half a day.

Re: The world of pipe fittings

#30

I've helped out with some plumbing work in an older house, and it's pretty fascinating to see the progression of technologies. 100 years ago, most drain pipes in the US were massive cast-iron pieces with no threads at all. They were mated together, then the joint was filled with a compound called oakum. To really hold it together, the plumber would pour molten lead on top of the oakum. Just taking that stuff apart is…

> To really hold it together, the plumber would pour molten lead on top of the oakum. This is pretty interesting, because plumbers are called 'lead-pourers' (loodgieters) in Dutch, and I had always wondered why.

The english word, too, is derived from the Latin for lead: plumbum.
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