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Nostr is a stupid simple P2P protocol that works, built by builders

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21–30 of 132 posts

Re: Nostr is a stupid simple P2P protocol that works, built by builders

#21
post #4

Not saying this is the future, but something like it is. All of the core decisions here are solid (pub key identities, signed events, dumb relays). There are still features that many apps will need such as tying multiple devices to an identity, abuse prevention for relay operators, etc.

“All of the core decisions here are solid (pub key identities…” I agree, except for the bit about public keys as identities. I think public key identities are a step in the right direction, but there’s still a gap between that and what the ultimate solution is going to wind up being. We need to have some layer of indirection between user identities and public keys so that users can do things like rotate keys, have mu…

I was reading about algorand rekeying today, as well as DIDs and atproto/bluesky.

Both seem to use a “signed rotation” approach. Algorand keeps your public key stable while adding metadata that your spend key has changed and links the two. Atproto similarly uses the recovery key to sign a rotation op which can regenerate your signing key, additionally readjusting the tree to preattack state (by setting prev of the rotation to the last precompromise state).

This seems like an improvement of some kind, but still leaves gaps for lost keys. Keybase style approach, or multisig social recovery may also help.

Re: Nostr is a stupid simple P2P protocol that works, built by builders

#22
post #20

At this point I don't see much point in adopting something that doesn't support ActivityPub. I'd rather just use Mastodon/Pleroma/Akkoma with some heavy blocklists.

A stupid simple message relay protocol can be used for stuff other than social media.

OTOH websockets are hard outside the browser :(

Re: Nostr is a stupid simple P2P protocol that works, built by builders

#23
post #16

If everything goes through relays then is it really P2P? Why not even try to have a direct connection of any sort, such as WebRTC?

Is email p2p? Can you configure multiple relays like MX records for email? Can a receiver be its own relay?

Relays are important for two reasons: peer discovery and communicating when one of the parties is offline. Same as with other p2p networks.

Re: Nostr is a stupid simple P2P protocol that works, built by builders

#24
I don't agree Nostr is P2P since clients must connect to relays and there's no provision at the time for client to client connectivity. I found out about Nostr and due to the simplicity of the protocol I was able to start building right away. I implemented a relay using Typescript: https://github.com/Cameri/nostr-ts-relay I also wrote this dead simple SMTP to Nostr gateway: https://github.com/Cameri/smtp-nostr-gateway

Re: Nostr is a stupid simple P2P protocol that works, built by builders

#25
post #22
post #20

At this point I don't see much point in adopting something that doesn't support ActivityPub. I'd rather just use Mastodon/Pleroma/Akkoma with some heavy blocklists.

A stupid simple message relay protocol can be used for stuff other than social media. OTOH websockets are hard outside the browser :(

Websockets are almost trivial now if you just use a library

Re: Nostr is a stupid simple P2P protocol that works, built by builders

#26

Link to nostr NIPs (nostr improvement proposals): https://github.com/nostr-protocol/nips/blob/master/README.md One of the neat things about nostr is that while it has already been used to build a decentralized Twitter like social network, the protocol could also be used to build encrypted P2P chat, traditional discussion forum, alerting/push style notifications, and numerous other applications.

Might be worth going with "enhancement proposal" instead so you don't call your governance documents "nips".

Re: Nostr is a stupid simple P2P protocol that works, built by builders

#27

So how does nostr propose to solve the problem where there is, in fact, quite a lot of content that you want to filter out, whether because it makes for a better experience for the people using this protocol to talk to each other, or because there are some pretty solid laws about things that various governments require people to filter out? https://abovethelaw.com/2022/11/hey-elon-let-me-help-you-spe... is a pretty d…

Nostr lets you specify who and what you subscribe to, so unless you subscribe to everything and everyone this isn't really a problem. You can also subscribe to followers' followers and expand that way.

Re: Nostr is a stupid simple P2P protocol that works, built by builders

#28
post #20

At this point I don't see much point in adopting something that doesn't support ActivityPub. I'd rather just use Mastodon/Pleroma/Akkoma with some heavy blocklists.

I've been looking at alternative implementations since I don't want to run the entire Mastodon app for just myself. The fact that every single ActivityPub implementation runs into so many interoperability issues, such that they have to be fixed to work with each other system one by one, is a sign to me that the protocol is either too complicated or not robust enough (probably both).

There is tremendous value in a much simpler protocol, especially if it can deal with the identity migration issues that Mastodon has faced since day one.

Re: Nostr is a stupid simple P2P protocol that works, built by builders

#30

So how does nostr propose to solve the problem where there is, in fact, quite a lot of content that you want to filter out, whether because it makes for a better experience for the people using this protocol to talk to each other, or because there are some pretty solid laws about things that various governments require people to filter out? https://abovethelaw.com/2022/11/hey-elon-let-me-help-you-spe... is a pretty d…

Unlike what OP says Nostr relays are not dumb, they can have their own policies and to me they look like a better version of Mastodon servers. They can have identities, "themes" and policies as they wish. On Nostr it's totally fine for one relay to only allow certain kinds of content and block everything else. Users can just connect to multiple relays if they want to read/write about different things.
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