Live data from Hacker News

Go ahead, be rude. It will cost you $350k

theregister.com

21–30 of 45 posts

Re: Go ahead, be rude. It will cost you $350k

#21

The first time I read the phrase "the customer is always right" was a book about aluminum produced by the Alcoa company when I was a kid. When I parrot this phrase to most people today they tell me the opposite is true, that any customer who isn't satisfied is an asshole and is doing you a favor if they switch to the competition. I remember reading a business book in the early 2000s that said as much and that you sho…

"The customer is always right" refers to the product design. If you sell shoes that you think are the best on the market, but customers think they're bad, the customer is always right. It helps direct attention toward selling what people want, not what you think they should want.

Notably it does not mean that individual customers (or would-bes) are always justified in their complaints.

Re: Go ahead, be rude. It will cost you $350k

#22
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Larry has all sorts of questionable qualities, and there are plenty of reasons to leave (or use) Oracle, but some person being arbitrarily dismissive isn't really one of them. Unless the dismissiveness was over something very material. "I would like to think it cost him at least a few of his racing yachts." - because the CEO/Director of a massive multinational conglomerate with 100 000 employees didn't arbitrarily ha…

I would counter that if you are at a networking function with your customers that you should consider yourself the face of your company and act accordingly. I don't blame them for developing a dislike for Oracle after an Oracle representative mistreated them. Their whole purpose in being there was to put face time in with past and future customers and engender positive connections and they failed.

I would say two things were equally wrong in the OPs anecdote: one person was offensive, and one person was offended. While it seems just to entirely blame the offensive person, ego is a thing not good and taking offense is a choice. Unless physically striking someone, it is not possible to hurt someone's feelings. Feelings are important, no doubt, but feelings are entirely the responsibility of the feeler. One may have to think about where feelings come from and how they are actually caused to realize this. Every individual is responsible for their own actions and themselves, for their own body, and for their own body's releases of their own hormones, adrenaline, noradrenaline, cortisol, or whatever it is that is the actual functional cause of the feelings. Taking offense is just as bad as offending. Humility, ducks back, this is ideally what should occur when someone is offensive, but... of course, people should not be offensive, either, they should be kind and empathetic. No one is perfect, but if they have two cheeks, one always has the opportunity to emulate perfection. A lot of people are rude jerks sometimes, but rather than taking offense, we can choose to be awesome instead.

Re: Go ahead, be rude. It will cost you $350k

#23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. Then it's a tale of poor CRM, where you can't tie your support calls into the rest of customer flow. Could totally see that if look up support purely by SKU and serial without thing it into rest of CRM. Hmm. At a startup I worked, the only thing that kept "is this important" in mind was a rough list of importance in eng managers' heads. Definitely led to us misprioritizing customers.

Or you can strive to treat every customer like gold and reap the long term rewards of an impeccable reputation.

Eh. Some customers are shitty and very demanding. Most people don’t want to be in the business of pampering assholes, and plenty of people will take advantage of a business that will do anything to make literally everyone happy. Just go read some bad Yelp reviews of your favorite restaurant and ask yourself if all of those people really deserved to be treated differently.

Re: Go ahead, be rude. It will cost you $350k

#25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would counter that if you are at a networking function with your customers that you should consider yourself the face of your company and act accordingly. I don't blame them for developing a dislike for Oracle after an Oracle representative mistreated them. Their whole purpose in being there was to put face time in with past and future customers and engender positive connections and they failed.

I would say two things were equally wrong in the OPs anecdote: one person was offensive, and one person was offended. While it seems just to entirely blame the offensive person, ego is a thing not good and taking offense is a choice. Unless physically striking someone, it is not possible to hurt someone's feelings. Feelings are important, no doubt, but feelings are entirely the responsibility of the feeler. One may h…

So if I call a Black person the N-word or address a Jewish person with an antisemitic slur, and this bothers them because it reminds them of how society has long dehumanised them and enslaved and murdered their peers simply for being born into that classification, etc, it is as much their fault for not having a handle on their hormones as it is mine for having said that thing?

It may be the case that some of us can choose whether or not to be offended in any kind of circumstance, but that doesn’t prove everybody can, just like many people not simply being able to think themselves out of major clinical depression. It would be strange to blame them for this.

Edit: grammar

Re: Go ahead, be rude. It will cost you $350k

#26
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say two things were equally wrong in the OPs anecdote: one person was offensive, and one person was offended. While it seems just to entirely blame the offensive person, ego is a thing not good and taking offense is a choice. Unless physically striking someone, it is not possible to hurt someone's feelings. Feelings are important, no doubt, but feelings are entirely the responsibility of the feeler. One may h…

So if I call a Black person the N-word or address a Jewish person with an antisemitic slur, and this bothers them because it reminds them of how society has long dehumanised them and enslaved and murdered their peers simply for being born into that classification, etc, it is as much their fault for not having a handle on their hormones as it is mine for having said that thing? It may be the case that some of us can c…

I would say most theories are overly simplistic for classifying humans. However here are a few I've found helpful.

1. Your feelings typically say more about yourself than about another person. Use them for self reflection.

2. Feeling wronged when someone is an asshole is just. Learn to create boundaries and find ways to separate yourself from such people, both physically and emotionally.

3. Very few things are made better by being obsessively angry. Learn what is causing your anger, work through it and confront people you want to keep a relationship with.

Most of all, try to always give others the benefit of the doubt, and if they ask forgiveness grant it. If they prove themselves repeatedly unreliable than form the appropriate boundaries, but still treat them with the respect that any person deserves.

Re: Go ahead, be rude. It will cost you $350k

#27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. Then it's a tale of poor CRM, where you can't tie your support calls into the rest of customer flow. Could totally see that if look up support purely by SKU and serial without thing it into rest of CRM. Hmm. At a startup I worked, the only thing that kept "is this important" in mind was a rough list of importance in eng managers' heads. Definitely led to us misprioritizing customers.

Or you can strive to treat every customer like gold and reap the long term rewards of an impeccable reputation.

Engineering is constraint optimization. Yes, ideally you have zero issues and your programs never have any bugs.

Re: Go ahead, be rude. It will cost you $350k

#28
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say two things were equally wrong in the OPs anecdote: one person was offensive, and one person was offended. While it seems just to entirely blame the offensive person, ego is a thing not good and taking offense is a choice. Unless physically striking someone, it is not possible to hurt someone's feelings. Feelings are important, no doubt, but feelings are entirely the responsibility of the feeler. One may h…

So if I call a Black person the N-word or address a Jewish person with an antisemitic slur, and this bothers them because it reminds them of how society has long dehumanised them and enslaved and murdered their peers simply for being born into that classification, etc, it is as much their fault for not having a handle on their hormones as it is mine for having said that thing? It may be the case that some of us can c…

A wise man once told me (and others), never get offended. Being offended is just you with your dander up. It doesn't do anything other than ruin your day. So instead of getting offended, he said, get even. Work to make whatever was offending you stop or change. That's a good use of your energy. Spouting the vitriol of offense... isn't.

I've never seen taking offense the same way since hearing that.

Re: Go ahead, be rude. It will cost you $350k

#29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would counter that if you are at a networking function with your customers that you should consider yourself the face of your company and act accordingly. I don't blame them for developing a dislike for Oracle after an Oracle representative mistreated them. Their whole purpose in being there was to put face time in with past and future customers and engender positive connections and they failed.

I would say two things were equally wrong in the OPs anecdote: one person was offensive, and one person was offended. While it seems just to entirely blame the offensive person, ego is a thing not good and taking offense is a choice. Unless physically striking someone, it is not possible to hurt someone's feelings. Feelings are important, no doubt, but feelings are entirely the responsibility of the feeler. One may h…

> Taking offense is just as bad as offending

Why would you think that? If I, entirely by my own choice, take offense then I've only hurt myself. Hurting yourself should always be far less bad than hurting someone else.

Re: Go ahead, be rude. It will cost you $350k

#30
post #7

I have some anecdotal experience with this. I was at an Oracle event representing my company that managed Oracle for a very large number of customers. I met Larry. He treated me like I was an insignificant and why was I even talking to him . I considered that rude and highly dismissive. It became my goal to get our customers away from Oracle to which I had some success. Quite a few customers were able to move to MySQ…

Larry has all sorts of questionable qualities, and there are plenty of reasons to leave (or use) Oracle, but some person being arbitrarily dismissive isn't really one of them. Unless the dismissiveness was over something very material. "I would like to think it cost him at least a few of his racing yachts." - because the CEO/Director of a massive multinational conglomerate with 100 000 employees didn't arbitrarily ha…

> because the CEO/Director of a massive multinational conglomerate with 100 000 employees didn't arbitrarily have time for you?

The whole point of inviting people to such an event is to make them feel that the CEO does have time for them. Why else would he even be there?

Post reply on HN