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Shopify Is Illegal in Germany

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Re: Shopify Is Illegal in Germany

#21
post #7

All EU companies sending any PII to US-owned companies, regardless if the actual data stays in the EU or not, are in danger to be sued similarly to the author of this post. This is, among other laws, because of the US CLOUD act: > The CLOUD Act primarily amends the Stored Communications Act (SCA) of 1986 to allow federal law enforcement to compel U.S.-based technology companies via warrant or subpoena to provide requ…

In theory, yes. In practice, the issue is that Shopify refuses to sign a data processing agreement: https://gdpr.eu/what-is-data-processing-agreement/

DPAs do not protect against ramifications of the CLOUD act. See this thread (mainly the reply to it)[0]:

SCC = standard contractual clauses, aka DPA/GDPR clauses that govern when and how data transferred to the US is used.

> The ruling on Schrems II (the court case that struck down Privacy Shield) did not state that SCCs on their own would be sufficient. It said that SCCs + "additional safeguards" would be allowable. There have been several rulings already that SCCs on their own are not sufficient.

> The "additional safeguards" must include a risk analysis of US access to EU residents' data. Every court case I've seen from Schrems II onward identifies the US CLOUD Act as the privacy risk to address. CNIL is basically ruling that you cannot transfer data to a US company subject to the CLOUD Act, and an SCC cannot deal with that. This still leaves open the possibility of using US services that are not subject to the CLOUD Act. This is consistent with all rulings to date.

In summary, Schrems II + this ruling[1] mean that US corporations can't be involved with EU at all besides via licensing software to a completely independent EU corporation (which isn't a given either, though, since the US company could threaten withholding software updates/revoking the software license to pressure the EU corporation to hand over EU citizen data to US Law Enforcement - or otherwise implement a backdoor at the request of US Law Enforcement).

0: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30286642

1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30284372

Re: Shopify Is Illegal in Germany

#23
post #7

All EU companies sending any PII to US-owned companies, regardless if the actual data stays in the EU or not, are in danger to be sued similarly to the author of this post. This is, among other laws, because of the US CLOUD act: > The CLOUD Act primarily amends the Stored Communications Act (SCA) of 1986 to allow federal law enforcement to compel U.S.-based technology companies via warrant or subpoena to provide requ…

Does any one know if the Privacy Shield V2 will address this?

Re: Shopify Is Illegal in Germany

#24
With all of this popping up: how are you even supposed to run an internet service in the EU? Do you have to write all pieces of the software yourself or what? Since all the big services seem to be off-limits.

Re: Shopify Is Illegal in Germany

#25
Does this generalize to every US hoster, when used by an EU publisher? I mean, it's impossible to get consent or even information disclosure for the exposure of IP info, since the consent banner logically is loaded over that IP connection.

Re: Shopify Is Illegal in Germany

#26

I believe the authorities are correct here. Shopify is sending all personal data to CloudFlare, CloudFront (Amazon) and Fastly, so 3 US companies. They could sign so-called "data processing agreements" where they promise to safeguard personal data. But the Shopify FAQ explicitly states that they are unwilling to do so. As the result, Shopify is legally considered to not be processing data under the instructions of th…

[deleted]

Re: Shopify Is Illegal in Germany

#27
post #7

All EU companies sending any PII to US-owned companies, regardless if the actual data stays in the EU or not, are in danger to be sued similarly to the author of this post. This is, among other laws, because of the US CLOUD act: > The CLOUD Act primarily amends the Stored Communications Act (SCA) of 1986 to allow federal law enforcement to compel U.S.-based technology companies via warrant or subpoena to provide requ…

To clarify: Shopify is a Canadian company (edit: but as mentioned elsewhere in this thread: they send data to CloudFlare, CloudFront (Amazon) and Fastly, which are US companies.)

Re: Shopify Is Illegal in Germany

#28
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This affects the entire EU. I try to hammer it into people's heads here in NL. Using US-based cloud services if you touch PII is a huge risk as they're all getting like crazed addicts fighting over their next high PII-high.

It's the way the EU can protect their own tech industry.

While this is true, it is too easy. The privacy angle lives in the minds of Europeans, while US people seem to care a lot less.

Re: Shopify Is Illegal in Germany

#29
Though the intentions of GDPR were good, Following the GDPR to the letter is not feasible for any company that isn't a monopoly. We're in a situation where no one is following it all the way as it's not even clear what that means.

More of the same will continue and the GDPR will only be used coercively as an attack against competition or companies others don't like.

It's really a major blow for small businesses that want to work in the EU. EU desperately needs more small tech business so it's quite sad.

I would love a law that said what people think GDPR says. That you have to tell people if you were selling their data to third parties and to please not do that. This is simply not what GDPR is in practice.

The road to hell is paved with good intention.

Re: Shopify Is Illegal in Germany

#30
post #19

I believe the authorities are correct here. Shopify is sending all personal data to CloudFlare, CloudFront (Amazon) and Fastly, so 3 US companies. They could sign so-called "data processing agreements" where they promise to safeguard personal data. But the Shopify FAQ explicitly states that they are unwilling to do so. As the result, Shopify is legally considered to not be processing data under the instructions of th…

Shopify is a Canadian company, does this change anything?

I don't think that matters - what matters is where the processing servers are. And if they are using CloudFront etc, they are sending data to the US.
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