Live data from Hacker News

On Intellectual Dishonesty

aaronsw.com

21–30 of 35 posts

Re: On Intellectual Dishonesty

#21
post #11

Nice little write-up. I think I should take "This is an impractical standard to apply to everyday life" more to heart. In conversation I sometimes find myself adding unnecessary caveats to what I say, sort of similar to his "slept in one time in 2003" example. And he's right, trying to hold yourself to this standard of honesty all the time in real life will make people think you're weird.

On the other hand, be careful with this approach. It can be very difficult to get candid feedback in environments with a certain expectation of etiquette.

One advantage you may be winning for yourself with your caveats, without even realizing it, is a degree of credibility. By being careful that what you say is correct, and not merely "Basically right, more or less. Kind of.", you may find it much easier to convince people when you _do_ take stronger positions.

I think Aaron's counterexample is pretty terrible. Recalling one time you slept in once in 2003 is really not pertinent to the spirit of the question. The point is clearly not to ask you whether you have ever failed to show up for work on time, but whether you have reason to believe that it may be particularly difficult for you now, perhaps because you live far away or have a history of repeated difficulties with time management.

Personally I would recommend erring on the side of accuracy. I've witnessed plenty of cargo cult programming. "This technology will perform well enough for us" could mean from one person "I have run benchmarks on representative hardware and know that, under conditions I am about to explain, this technology will work for us", and from another "I have read about someone else using this technology in some way for something. I don't remember where I read it. Probably a blog post that made it to hacker news."

Re: On Intellectual Dishonesty

#23

Huge example of intellectual dishonesty in academia: you effectively can't publish negative results.

I suspect the problem is not rejections, but that people don't bother submitting them because it's not exciting.

Has anyone here tried hard to publish a negative result and had it consistently rejected?

Re: On Intellectual Dishonesty

#24
> indeed, if you were intellectually honest all the time people would think you were pretty weird.

See the biography of Stonewall Jackson. People thought his practice somewhat peculiar, but it earned him respect.

Re: On Intellectual Dishonesty

#26

Huge example of intellectual dishonesty in academia: you effectively can't publish negative results.

the exception is when the deviation from expectation is significant ie, 5-sigma certainty particles not conforming to speed of light limit would get a pretty quick acceptance.

Re: On Intellectual Dishonesty

#27
To be the most honest person in the world you have to be good at knowing when to lie, cheat, deceive, mislead and steal. People who never do any of those things are forced into positions where they must lie, cheat, deceive, mislead and steal... Unless they understand the spirit of the game and bring in the whole picture with words like justice, fairness, catch-22's, war, and love.

do you tell the genius ax murderer who is trying to kill you that you have changed your name and new location when he asks? Why not? It's dishonest.

Re: On Intellectual Dishonesty

#28
post #3

Feynman: I would like to add something that's not essential to the science, but something I kind of believe, which is that you should not fool the laymen when you're talking as a scientist. . . . I'm talking about a specific, extra type of integrity that is not lying, but bending over backwards to show how you're maybe wrong, [an integrity] that you ought to have when acting as a scientist. And this is our responsibi…

I also instantly thought of this when I read Aaron's post. It is a bit dishonest not to credit this famous promulgator of the idea.

more from Feynman, via

"Cargo Cult Science", adapted from a commencement address given at Caltech (1974)

quoted at https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Richard_Feynman

There is one feature I notice that is generally missing in "cargo cult science." It's a kind of scientific integrity, a principle of scientific thought that corresponds to a kind of utter honesty — a kind of leaning over backwards. For example, if you're doing an experiment, you should report everything that you think might make it invalid — not only what you think is right about it; other causes that could possibly explain your results; and things you thought of that you've eliminated by some other experiment, and how they worked — to make sure the other fellow can tell they have been eliminated.

Details that could throw doubt on your interpretation must be given, if you know them. You must do the best you can — if you know anything at all wrong, or possibly wrong — to explain it. If you make a theory, for example, and advertise it, or put it out, then you must also put down all the facts that disagree with it, as well as those that agree with it...

In summary, the idea is to try to give all of the information to help others to judge the value of your contribution; not just the information that leads to judgment in one particular direction or another.

Post reply on HN