Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Should You Pay to Pitch Your Startup?

betabeat.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 44 posts

Re: Should You Pay to Pitch Your Startup?

#21

Post by [deleted] »

whenisayUH wrote: post #11
patio11 wrote: post #2

It's a sign that you're entering hugely, hugely seedy territory if you ever are asked to pay to receive offers of employment, scholarships, or investment. First, many out-and-out scams operate that way. Second, if the opportunity were legitimate, there is an adverse selection risk. Meritorious candidates for employment/scholarships/investment have no interest in paying to get a chance at them, so those candidates wou…

Uh oh -- The downvoting has started. Feel free to do that but please explain where I'm missing the mark. Thanks. ----- I'm really not sure why entrepreneurs who I'd suspect believe in free markets need to be coddled and "protected" from pay-to-pitch programs which at the end of the day are just another business - some good and some bad. Just because you're a struggling entrepreneur doesn't mean other people shouldn't…

[deleted]

Re: Should You Pay to Pitch Your Startup?

#22

Post by lsc »

pavelkaroukin wrote: post #8

I am not a founder looking for an investment (at least, yet), but $50 in USA does not sounds bad for a lean start up. It act more as a filter than as an income for event host IMHO. Founder probably will spend more on a hotel alone. On the other hand, practice of not disclosing fees and charging in the range of $1.000 - $8.000 definitely look shady. Just my .05

what do you think it filters? Do you really think there are a large number of low-quality companies that would be deterred from pitching by a $50 entrance fee?

Re: Should You Pay to Pitch Your Startup?

#23

Post by [deleted] »

whenisayUH wrote: post #11
patio11 wrote: post #2

It's a sign that you're entering hugely, hugely seedy territory if you ever are asked to pay to receive offers of employment, scholarships, or investment. First, many out-and-out scams operate that way. Second, if the opportunity were legitimate, there is an adverse selection risk. Meritorious candidates for employment/scholarships/investment have no interest in paying to get a chance at them, so those candidates wou…

Uh oh -- The downvoting has started. Feel free to do that but please explain where I'm missing the mark. Thanks. ----- I'm really not sure why entrepreneurs who I'd suspect believe in free markets need to be coddled and "protected" from pay-to-pitch programs which at the end of the day are just another business - some good and some bad. Just because you're a struggling entrepreneur doesn't mean other people shouldn't…

[deleted]

Re: Should You Pay to Pitch Your Startup?

#24

Post by lsc »

whenisayUH wrote: post #11
patio11 wrote: post #2

It's a sign that you're entering hugely, hugely seedy territory if you ever are asked to pay to receive offers of employment, scholarships, or investment. First, many out-and-out scams operate that way. Second, if the opportunity were legitimate, there is an adverse selection risk. Meritorious candidates for employment/scholarships/investment have no interest in paying to get a chance at them, so those candidates wou…

Uh oh -- The downvoting has started. Feel free to do that but please explain where I'm missing the mark. Thanks. ----- I'm really not sure why entrepreneurs who I'd suspect believe in free markets need to be coddled and "protected" from pay-to-pitch programs which at the end of the day are just another business - some good and some bad. Just because you're a struggling entrepreneur doesn't mean other people shouldn't…

It's about aligning incentives. I mean, I'm not going to hire a sales person, give her the power to negotiate price, and then give her the same commission for a full-price sale as a dramatically discounted sale, am I? Of course not. As much as possible, I'm going to tie her commissions to the profits she generates, and if she's selling my stuff at cost, well, I'm not making any profit.

Same sort of thing here. If I'm going to "hire" an investor, do I want to pay him up front, before he gives me any of the value I want from him? Of course not. He makes his money when I make mine, after the company is profitable and distributing dividends, or after it gets sold.

Of course, this only applies to the significant, multi-kilobuck fees. the $50-$100 fees are social signaling and nothing more. Personally, I think it signals something bad on the part of the investors (E.G. I am too cheap to cover the cost of the venue and sandwiches, even though I'm spending significant time on every one of you) but I could see how some people would instead think of it as signaling something good on the part of investors (e.g. I am willing to throw in a token amount of my own cash)

Re: Should You Pay to Pitch Your Startup?

#25

Post by lawlorg »

SemanticFog wrote: post #7

In general I think pay-to-pitch is highly suspicious, but I'm sympathetic to Graham Lawlor and Ultralight startups. He charges a small fee to cover expenses and make sure people are moderately serious. There's no way he's getting rich off of it. Pizza is included. The feedback and exposure are well worth the minimal cost. If the fee still bothers you, then just don't pitch there.

Thanks SemanticFog, I appreciate the kind words.

Running good events is very time consuming, more than people often realize. And yet my landlord continues to "prey on" me by demanding that I pay rent. Somehow, he fails to see comrade Calacanis' logic that everything should be free...

Graham Lawlor - Ultra Light Startups

Re: Should You Pay to Pitch Your Startup?

#26

Post by int3rnaut »

This attitude also exists in other industries[1], and while it is shifty, it's relatively common to the degree where it's not even given a second thought or whimper. This to me is quite unfortunate, especially considering where I am in my life and my economic standing and I can't help but think of all the other people in my position. Really though, the best you can do is hope that there's good people out there that are willing to GIVE you a few minutes of their time, and not charge for it--and then when you're in that position you remember where you came from.

[1]Sundance Film festival charges $75 to submit a feature length film for consideration. I've come across many film festivals, writing contests, art shows and the like that charge you to "pitch your work". People are always trying to pick on the starving artist eh? (Callback to PG's Hackers and Painters).

Re: Should You Pay to Pitch Your Startup?

#27

Post by mindcrime »

lawlorg wrote: post #25
SemanticFog wrote: post #7

In general I think pay-to-pitch is highly suspicious, but I'm sympathetic to Graham Lawlor and Ultralight startups. He charges a small fee to cover expenses and make sure people are moderately serious. There's no way he's getting rich off of it. Pizza is included. The feedback and exposure are well worth the minimal cost. If the fee still bothers you, then just don't pitch there.

Thanks SemanticFog, I appreciate the kind words. Running good events is very time consuming, more than people often realize. And yet my landlord continues to "prey on" me by demanding that I pay rent. Somehow, he fails to see comrade Calacanis' logic that everything should be free... Graham Lawlor - Ultra Light Startups

Are you in the event planning business or something? Isn't the idea for investors to make their money via return on the investment they make in startups?

That said, charging enough to cover the cost of pizza and what-not, that seems reasonable. But any outfits that are charging more than a nominal fee are highly questionable to me.

Re: Should You Pay to Pitch Your Startup?

#29

Post by whenisayUH »

duhoang wrote: post #20
whenisayUH wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is anyone being exploited? You have a choice to pitch or not. It's not blackmail. It may be foolish to pitch at these events, but as far as I know, nobody is being forced into pitching or being told "you can't research this event and our track record before signing up."

It's like a scam...no one is forcing you to be a victim of a scam, you just don't know better. reply

"You don't know better." If an entrepreneur is that helpless, paying-to-pitch is the least of their problems.

Re: Should You Pay to Pitch Your Startup?

#30

Post by v21 »

int3rnaut wrote: post #26

This attitude also exists in other industries[1], and while it is shifty, it's relatively common to the degree where it's not even given a second thought or whimper. This to me is quite unfortunate, especially considering where I am in my life and my economic standing and I can't help but think of all the other people in my position. Really though, the best you can do is hope that there's good people out there that a…

I can actually understand this. If you're running an awards ceremony, then the payback from the winner of the competition is relatively low - hopefully they go on to great things, and you helped them along, and establish your reputation that way. But the costs of having 10x as many entrants is pretty high - each of those entries has to be evaluated, hopefully by multiple people. Each entrant is another contact to be managed, another bit of IP to keep track of. The most important role of the fee is to reduce the number of entrants without reducing the number of genuinely awesome entrants. That's why Sundance's entry fee is so low - it makes it a reasonably expensive whim, but if you're honestly got a shot, it's obviously worth doing. It still sucks, but it's for sensible reasons, and not just for the actual revenue stream.

[Edited to add: But if anyone is charging more than a nominal fee, run away!]

Post reply on HN