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Vasa's sister ship Äpplet found

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Re: Vasa's sister ship Äpplet found

#21

Post by sorenjan »

pavlov wrote: post #5

The naming of the first ship is obvious: Vasa was the royal house of Sweden. But why did the king decide to call the second ship "The Apple"? Did he like his Macintosh so much?

Vasa wasn't named after the royal house, it was named after the vase[0] on the heraldic symbol for the house of Vasa[1]. A vase is probably best described as a fasces. Äpplet was probably named after a globus cruciger[2], or "national apple" (riksäpple), part of the regalia of Sweden.

[0] https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vase_(heraldisk_symbol)

[1] https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasa%C3%A4tten#/media/Fil:COA-...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Globus_cruciger

Re: Vasa's sister ship Äpplet found

#22

Post by sorenjan »

mayormcmatt wrote: post #18
pavlov wrote: post #5

The naming of the first ship is obvious: Vasa was the royal house of Sweden. But why did the king decide to call the second ship "The Apple"? Did he like his Macintosh so much?

Tangentially, there is an interesting connection between Scandanavia and the Mac: the command key symbol, AKA Saint John's Arms (among others). When I've visited Sweden, it's all over the countryside, on signs marking places of interest.

Another similar tangent: Rambo got his name from the Rambo apple, which in turn got its name from Peter Gunnarsson Ramberg who took the name from Ramberget in Gothenburg.

Re: Vasa's sister ship Äpplet found

#23

Post by Smar »

coldcode wrote: post #9

I must resist asking if it used Java. I would love to see the Vasa but have not made it to Stockholm yet. I did see the Mary Rose in Portsmouth which was incredibly fascinating to see (large portions of the ship remain so you can see the layout). Mary Rose is from the century prior to Vasa and Äpplet.

It probably used Jäva.

Re: Vasa's sister ship Äpplet found

#24

Post by bjacobt »

jfk13 wrote: post #7

> The ship's designer was Hein Jakobsson, the same master shipbuilder who completed Vasa. He realized that Vasa had the wrong proportions even before she was launched, which could lead to instability. And indeed, she tipped, foundered and sank on her maiden voyage. > The Apple was therefore built wider than the Vasa, but despite this, the ship was not successful... Being a "master shipbuilder" in those days was appar…

And there was unreasonable expectation and pressure from management

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasa_syndrome

Edited

Re: Vasa's sister ship Äpplet found

#25

Post by BurningFrog »

coldcode wrote: post #9

I must resist asking if it used Java. I would love to see the Vasa but have not made it to Stockholm yet. I did see the Mary Rose in Portsmouth which was incredibly fascinating to see (large portions of the ship remain so you can see the layout). Mary Rose is from the century prior to Vasa and Äpplet.

I've been across much of the world, and never seen or heard of anything like Vasa. If I'm wrong, I'm sure comments below will have counterexamples :)

I tell people that if they only do one thing in Stockholm, it should be that.

Re: Vasa's sister ship Äpplet found

#26

Post by BurningFrog »

sorenjan wrote: post #21
pavlov wrote: post #5

The naming of the first ship is obvious: Vasa was the royal house of Sweden. But why did the king decide to call the second ship "The Apple"? Did he like his Macintosh so much?

Vasa wasn't named after the royal house, it was named after the vase[0] on the heraldic symbol for the house of Vasa[1]. A vase is probably best described as a fasces. Äpplet was probably named after a globus cruciger[2], or "national apple" (riksäpple), part of the regalia of Sweden. [0] https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vase_(heraldisk_symbol) [1] https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasa%C3%A4tten#/media/Fil:COA-... [2] http…

It seems that Gustav I also took the name Vasa from the heraldic symbol, though the Wikipedia article doesn't say so directly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Vasa

Re: Vasa's sister ship Äpplet found

#27

Post by labster »

pavlov wrote: post #20
abcd_f wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the proportions of Vasa were wrong only because the king got to participate in and drive the design process.

In fact being a master shipbuilder in 1612 was very similar to being a master software architect in 2022.

That would explain why someone wrote IT shanties.

https://www.npr.org/2022/01/22/1074964815/opinion-sea-shanti...

Re: Vasa's sister ship Äpplet found

#28

Post by matthiasv »

zdw wrote: post #8
hericium wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's Vasa Museum[1] in Stockholm with the whole ship. [1] https://www.vasamuseet.se/en/

If you have the opportunity, visiting this museum is highly recommended - they let you walk inside the ship and see both the historical context, as well as the modern restoration process. It's located in a beautiful park and the nearby Nordiska museum is also quite impressive.

They won't let you walk inside the ship. At least not a year ago.

Re: Vasa's sister ship Äpplet found

#29

Post by floren »

labster wrote: post #27
pavlov wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fact being a master shipbuilder in 1612 was very similar to being a master software architect in 2022.

That would explain why someone wrote IT shanties. https://www.npr.org/2022/01/22/1074964815/opinion-sea-shanti...

Not a patch on the White Collar Holler: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsDkmVo2fg4

Re: Vasa's sister ship Äpplet found

#30

Post by mandevil »

jfk13 wrote: post #7

> The ship's designer was Hein Jakobsson, the same master shipbuilder who completed Vasa. He realized that Vasa had the wrong proportions even before she was launched, which could lead to instability. And indeed, she tipped, foundered and sank on her maiden voyage. > The Apple was therefore built wider than the Vasa, but despite this, the ship was not successful... Being a "master shipbuilder" in those days was appar…

This is one of the things that reading D.K. Brown's pentology on design of RN ships (_Before the Ironclad_, _Warrior to Dreadnought_, _Grand Fleet_, _Nelson to Vanguard_, and _Rebuilding the Royal Navy_) drives home: in the pre-WWI era almost everything is done with fudge factors and building off of what was done before, but a little different, and even into the 1950's there are lots of room for error.

One story that has stuck with me is of a destroyer class in WW2 that performed particularly horribly because of an error on calculating the metacentric height. The proper procedure for calculating it was to have two different dudes each spend a week calculating it independently and hoping that their numbers matched. Apparently, in the rush of what had to be done, the RCNC cut some corners and only had one draftsman do it in this case, and he made an error and now the ships rolled horrifically. But even Bouguer and Euler- the people inventing metacentric height calculations- are working a century after the Vasa, so a master shipbuilder in that era just has his working experience and no real math to help him.

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