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Online card payments still suck

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Re: Online card payments still suck

#21

Post by mcv »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #13
mcv wrote: post #11

I'm still disappointed every time I try to order something at a webshop and they don't support iDeal[0]. That's how online payment should work. Of course it's only a Dutch system, so it's not going to be supported by all international webshops (although Steam does), but if anyone has the scope to introduce a more secure form of online payment, surely it's Visa and MasterCard? Why don't they introduce an iDeal-like pa…

Why should I care about credit card security? I have zero liability, and in 17 years of using them, I maybe had to ask the bank to issue a new credit card number once, and that would have been many years ago. I am sure tons of doctors' offices, hotels, online businesses, daycares, etc have my hand written card number and CVC code or whatever laying around, but even if someone did use it fraudulently, I would just cli…

It still costs money. Transactions cost more because of the insurance. And it's still bizarrely insecure. Credit card numbers get leaked all the time, even if you personally haven't experienced it. Not to mention that it's inconvenient having to type in all those numbers. Security can actually make things more convenient in this case.

When I buy something, I just have to scan the QR code with my banking app and authorise the payment, and that's it.

Re: Online card payments still suck

#22

Post by lotsofpulp »

psychlops wrote: post #20
lotsofpulp wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should I care about credit card security? I have zero liability, and in 17 years of using them, I maybe had to ask the bank to issue a new credit card number once, and that would have been many years ago. I am sure tons of doctors' offices, hotels, online businesses, daycares, etc have my hand written card number and CVC code or whatever laying around, but even if someone did use it fraudulently, I would just cli…

When losses are socialized, fraud is someone else's problem.

Yes, which is a big reason to use credit cards.

Re: Online card payments still suck

#23

Post by [deleted] »

mcv wrote: post #21
lotsofpulp wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should I care about credit card security? I have zero liability, and in 17 years of using them, I maybe had to ask the bank to issue a new credit card number once, and that would have been many years ago. I am sure tons of doctors' offices, hotels, online businesses, daycares, etc have my hand written card number and CVC code or whatever laying around, but even if someone did use it fraudulently, I would just cli…

It still costs money. Transactions cost more because of the insurance. And it's still bizarrely insecure. Credit card numbers get leaked all the time, even if you personally haven't experienced it. Not to mention that it's inconvenient having to type in all those numbers. Security can actually make things more convenient in this case. When I buy something, I just have to scan the QR code with my banking app and autho…

[deleted]

Re: Online card payments still suck

#24

Post by valdiorn »

fragmede wrote: post #16
prezjordan wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like what?

Accounts are the first thing that come to mind. right now, I have an account at my bank, and I need to meet certain requirements to have that account. Web3 wallet accounts have no such requirements, and creating a whole new account is just a click away. To make a payment, because my web wallet is already linked, I just select which wallet I want to make a payment from. No need to type out my credit card number. Apple…

"right now, I have an account at my bank, and I need to meet certain requirements to have that account."

Hello, my name is money laundering.

Why do you think the bank has those "requirements"? Do you think they just hate their customers, or do you think the government enforces this regulation onto the banks to prevent money laundering? Because it's definitely the latter.

... and it's already coming for crypto.

Re: Online card payments still suck

#25

Post by Brajeshwar »

We Indians take it for granted, but UPI[1] is a brilliant system. We make payments for something as small as ₹1 if needed. Transaction of ₹10[2] for a cup of tea is a very regular and ordinary happening.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Payments_Interface

2. ₹10 is roughly $0.12 (as of today).

Re: Online card payments still suck

#26

Post by croes »

Timja wrote: post #17
andy_ppp wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’ve moved trust from the banking system into code. That might be a good thing. I will look into how the lightening network works to inform myself. The climate change and extreme volatility amongst other issues are still going to prevent Bitcoin being adopted for settlements.

The idea that Bitcoin "needs" a lot of energy is also a misconception. How much resources are used to produce something is determined by the value of that something. At the moment, about $6B worth of Bitcoin is mined per year. So roughly $6B of resources are used to mine Bitcoin. About half of it is hardware and half of it is energy. At the same time, about $150B of gold is mined every year. So roughly $150B of resou…

You do realize that gold has a lot more use cases beside payment after it is mined?

Bitcoin can't compete with that.

Even if tomorrow nobody accepts gold you can still use it in electronics and such.

Re: Online card payments still suck

#27

Post by r_hoods_ghost »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #13
mcv wrote: post #11

I'm still disappointed every time I try to order something at a webshop and they don't support iDeal[0]. That's how online payment should work. Of course it's only a Dutch system, so it's not going to be supported by all international webshops (although Steam does), but if anyone has the scope to introduce a more secure form of online payment, surely it's Visa and MasterCard? Why don't they introduce an iDeal-like pa…

Why should I care about credit card security? I have zero liability, and in 17 years of using them, I maybe had to ask the bank to issue a new credit card number once, and that would have been many years ago. I am sure tons of doctors' offices, hotels, online businesses, daycares, etc have my hand written card number and CVC code or whatever laying around, but even if someone did use it fraudulently, I would just cli…

It's worth noting that this isn't neccesarily how credit card disputes work in other countries. If I want to dispute a charge in the UK I have to first dispute it with the merchant, then if they refuse to give a refund dowload a 10 page .pdf form from my bank, fill it out, print it and sign it (digital signatures will be rejected) give copious evidence that I am not to blame, and then send it off. After a few weeks and probably at least one or two follow up calls I might get a refund. Other countries may have better or worse systems and credit card companies (and banks) are interested in the global market, not just the USA.

Re: Online card payments still suck

#28

Post by dr_dshiv »

mcv wrote: post #11

I'm still disappointed every time I try to order something at a webshop and they don't support iDeal[0]. That's how online payment should work. Of course it's only a Dutch system, so it's not going to be supported by all international webshops (although Steam does), but if anyone has the scope to introduce a more secure form of online payment, surely it's Visa and MasterCard? Why don't they introduce an iDeal-like pa…

I love iDeal! It is one reason why the Amazon Monopoly has less hold in countries like the Netherlands. Online payment is such a breeze!

Re: Online card payments still suck

#29

Post by franciscop »

> "The security of your card details is only marginally improved"

Please don't be ridiculous, I understand you have to instill fear in the people reading this for them to use your service, but the security of what you described before to today has improved by orders of magnitude:

- I'm going to guess no HTTPS 20 years ago (it was formally specified 22 years ago).

- Merchant employee has access to the raw data of your credit card. Lowest paid one probably, since it's manual data entry.

- Send this data using email, which is not secure neither at the sending point, receiving point or transportation.

- To the ordering service, again a lowly paid employee with access to the raw credit card data.

- In none of these points, except the first, the payment amount was confirmed/verified by the client.

- At none of these points the author of the order is verified to be the legit owner of the card.

Today, sure it's still complex, but we basically have 2FA, card tokenization, client verification of payments, forced HTTPS, etc. which remove all of the insecure points mentioned above.

Disclaimer: I recently joined Stripe, opinions my own though ofc

Re: Online card payments still suck

#30

Post by yurishimo »

mcv wrote: post #21
lotsofpulp wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should I care about credit card security? I have zero liability, and in 17 years of using them, I maybe had to ask the bank to issue a new credit card number once, and that would have been many years ago. I am sure tons of doctors' offices, hotels, online businesses, daycares, etc have my hand written card number and CVC code or whatever laying around, but even if someone did use it fraudulently, I would just cli…

It still costs money. Transactions cost more because of the insurance. And it's still bizarrely insecure. Credit card numbers get leaked all the time, even if you personally haven't experienced it. Not to mention that it's inconvenient having to type in all those numbers. Security can actually make things more convenient in this case. When I buy something, I just have to scan the QR code with my banking app and autho…

I've recently moved to NL from the USA; iDeal is great! I won't go into the excruciating slog of work that was required to open a Dutch bank account as a US Citizen, but now that I have an account, it's awesome!

Account transfers are much faster as well, which is true for most (all?) SEPA countries. I know the US is actively working on a faster/cheaper transfer system but realistically that is still 5+ years away for most consumers.

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