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Why high speed rail hasn’t caught on

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Re: Why high speed rail hasn’t caught on

#21

Post by choeger »

leoedin wrote: post #3

What I find odd about this is that... Trains are the go-to means of intercity transport across much of Europe. The term "High speed rail" isn't strictly defined, but seems to kick in somewhere between 110 and 155 mph. Pretty much every intercity train in the UK is running at 125mph for at least some of their journey. Europe is full of functioning high speed rail networks - TGV, ICE, Eurostar, networks in Spain and It…

"functioning" is an exaggeration. Most of the German trains are slower than 300kph most of the time. They are also often crowded, delayed or outright cancelled. They are also quite expensive, compared to planes.

I think the author has a very valid point when it comes to the cost of rail tracks. It's something the proponents always conveniently ignore. On top of that, a rail station has quite a limited capacity, especially if it's inside the city. The travel time between, e.g., Berlin and Paris is something like four to five times as long as by plane.

So unless someone develops a low-maintenance, high-capacity fast train, planes with ecofuel are probably going to win any fair competition.

Re: Why high speed rail hasn’t caught on

#22

Post by 1123581321 »

dasloop wrote: post #14
leoedin wrote: post #3

What I find odd about this is that... Trains are the go-to means of intercity transport across much of Europe. The term "High speed rail" isn't strictly defined, but seems to kick in somewhere between 110 and 155 mph. Pretty much every intercity train in the UK is running at 125mph for at least some of their journey. Europe is full of functioning high speed rail networks - TGV, ICE, Eurostar, networks in Spain and It…

In many HN publications the label "In USA" is applicable, the equivalent of "In mice" for many medical studies :)

Read the article—the author prefaces with their experience riding trains all over the world and has worked in rail. There is a ton of detail, much more interesting than the conclusion.

Re: Why high speed rail hasn’t caught on

#23

Post by IshKebab »

matkoniecz wrote: post #6

> Despite decades of development, only a handful of routes in Europe operate at anything like airplane-competitive speeds, which for all but the shortest routes, require > 300 km/h or > 185 mph. Not really, given massive fixed cost at airplane terminal and airports being typically harder to get to than train station. When I was flying this summer, I was asked to come to airport 150 minutes before planned departure. 2…

Yeah definitely. I'd rather take a train even if it was quite significantly slower. The real downside of train travel is the phenomenal cost.

Re: Why high speed rail hasn’t caught on

#25

Post by matkoniecz »

choeger wrote: post #21
leoedin wrote: post #3

What I find odd about this is that... Trains are the go-to means of intercity transport across much of Europe. The term "High speed rail" isn't strictly defined, but seems to kick in somewhere between 110 and 155 mph. Pretty much every intercity train in the UK is running at 125mph for at least some of their journey. Europe is full of functioning high speed rail networks - TGV, ICE, Eurostar, networks in Spain and It…

"functioning" is an exaggeration. Most of the German trains are slower than 300kph most of the time. They are also often crowded, delayed or outright cancelled. They are also quite expensive, compared to planes. I think the author has a very valid point when it comes to the cost of rail tracks. It's something the proponents always conveniently ignore. On top of that, a rail station has quite a limited capacity, espec…

> low-maintenance, high-capacity fast train, planes with ecofuel

is either existing?

> On top of that, a rail station has quite a limited capacity, especially if it's inside the city.

Traffic generated by rail station limited by capacity would require gargantuan airport to handle it, which would anyway require bus/train/car connections from within city taking even more space.

Re: Why high speed rail hasn’t caught on

#26

Post by matkoniecz »

bergenty wrote: post #13
bmitc wrote: post #5

Riding the high-speed rail in China made me so envious of that setup. If we had that in certain locations in the U.S., it would be absolutely amazing. You just show up a half hour before your train (gotta get there earlier in certain huge stations) and basically walk on. The train ride is buttery smooth with a lot of space, and you can order food from the next station to be delivered to you if you don't want any of t…

But why do this over just flying. You can show up 30-45 mins before any domestic flight and leave as soon as you land on the other end.

> You can show up 30-45 mins before any domestic flight

Where? I was flying in Europe and was asked to be on airport 150 minutes before departure.

Re: Why high speed rail hasn’t caught on

#27

Post by addicted »

1123581321 wrote: post #22
dasloop wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In many HN publications the label "In USA" is applicable, the equivalent of "In mice" for many medical studies :)

Read the article—the author prefaces with their experience riding trains all over the world and has worked in rail. There is a ton of detail, much more interesting than the conclusion.

A clarification. They’ve not worked in rail. They’ve worked in hyperloop. A fantasy technology that does not, and probably never will, exist.

Imagine being able to destroy the idea of constructing rail in a few paragraphs of a tiny blog and then choosing to work on hyperloop, which has all the problems mentioned about rail but also throws in creating and maintaining a vacuum pipe in addition.

Re: Why high speed rail hasn’t caught on

#29

Post by bmitc »

bergenty wrote: post #13
bmitc wrote: post #5

Riding the high-speed rail in China made me so envious of that setup. If we had that in certain locations in the U.S., it would be absolutely amazing. You just show up a half hour before your train (gotta get there earlier in certain huge stations) and basically walk on. The train ride is buttery smooth with a lot of space, and you can order food from the next station to be delivered to you if you don't want any of t…

But why do this over just flying. You can show up 30-45 mins before any domestic flight and leave as soon as you land on the other end.

I would say very rarely would showing up 30-45 minutes before a domestic flight work. Maybe in some airports with pre-check and if you start the clock once you walk into the terminal, but that's just not a realistic time frame.

Further, the level comfort of the high-speed rail I rode on in China is not even remotely approached by any plane I have ever been on, and it was several times cheaper. There's also no difference between bringing a big suitcase or a small one versus checking or carrying on bags for a plane.

In many cities, the airport is in a terrible location. Boston, Denver, NYC, and many others have poor locations. Train stations, such as those in Boston and NYC, dump you right into the thick of the city. A high-speed rail train would be as fast as a plane's gate to gate time but basically platform to platform. A train is going to be much more efficient on emissions as well.

It's a little confusing why anyone would prefer a plane ride over high-speed rail for regional travel.

Re: Why high speed rail hasn’t caught on

#30

Post by egao1980 »

bergenty wrote: post #13
bmitc wrote: post #5

Riding the high-speed rail in China made me so envious of that setup. If we had that in certain locations in the U.S., it would be absolutely amazing. You just show up a half hour before your train (gotta get there earlier in certain huge stations) and basically walk on. The train ride is buttery smooth with a lot of space, and you can order food from the next station to be delivered to you if you don't want any of t…

But why do this over just flying. You can show up 30-45 mins before any domestic flight and leave as soon as you land on the other end.

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