How Palantir Will Steal the NHS • Hacker News Board

Re: How Palantir Will Steal the NHS

#21

Post by origin_path » Thu, Oct 06, 2022, 6:34 PM UTC

J3klin wrote: post #14

origin_path wrote: post #5

They can have it. It's broken anyway. Even the basics don't work anymore. My father can't get an injury looked at. After weeks he got a doctor's appointment, doctor says he needs tests at the local hospital. Local hospital doesn't pick up the phone and only has a webpage for booking appointments, said page simply says there are no appointments available. As in, permanently. Not like, no slots in the next few weeks. A…

Where in the country do you live? I've had some rough experiences down south but that sounds next level.

Father is in the North West.

Re: How Palantir Will Steal the NHS

#22

Post by origin_path » Thu, Oct 06, 2022, 6:42 PM UTC

throwaway290 wrote: post #7

nickdothutton wrote: post #6

I don’t think NHS funding has ever been “cut” in the history of the service. Sure, budget has been reduced from what was promised or intended, but every year the total spent has either increased or very occasionally been static [1]. Oh, and anyone who has actually had to use the NHS, or perhaps had a relative use it, particularly at the end of their lives, will have been very quickly disavowed of the idea that it is…

If there is an increasing number of people (including older people) with immigration, healthy birth rates and extending lifespan, not increasing the budget at corresponding speed (let alone keeping it static) is in all ways that matter effectively cutting it.

A common claim but utterly wrong. Population grew by 6.3% since 2011 years:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populati...

NHS budget grew in the same period 53%

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/nhs-in-a-nutshell/nhs-...

Even if you ignore the massive injection for COVID it grew 39%. The NHS has far more money per pop than ever before in its history yet it cannot meet even the most basic expectations that a third world country would have, like people actually being seen by a doctor in a timely manner if they collapse on the street and an ambulance is called out. Let alone less urgent stuff.

That's why the idea Palantir or any company would ever want to "steal the NHS" is delusional. The NHS is a bottomless bonfire of money, it's the USSR in healthcare form and works just as well. The more money it gets the more dysfunctional and broken it becomes. Nobody in their right mind would want to steal such a worthless thing.

Re: How Palantir Will Steal the NHS

#23

Post by throwaway290 » Fri, Oct 07, 2022, 7:11 PM UTC

origin_path wrote: post #22

throwaway290 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there is an increasing number of people (including older people) with immigration, healthy birth rates and extending lifespan, not increasing the budget at corresponding speed (let alone keeping it static) is in all ways that matter effectively cutting it.

A common claim but utterly wrong. Population grew by 6.3% since 2011 years: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populati... NHS budget grew in the same period 53% https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/nhs-in-a-nutshell/nhs-... Even if you ignore the massive injection for COVID it grew 39%. The NHS has far more money per pop than ever before in its history yet it cannot meet even the most basic expecta…

What part of my statement is wrong?

Re: How Palantir Will Steal the NHS

#24

Post by origin_path » Fri, Oct 07, 2022, 10:07 PM UTC

throwaway290 wrote: post #23

origin_path wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A common claim but utterly wrong. Population grew by 6.3% since 2011 years: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populati... NHS budget grew in the same period 53% https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/nhs-in-a-nutshell/nhs-... Even if you ignore the massive injection for COVID it grew 39%. The NHS has far more money per pop than ever before in its history yet it cannot meet even the most basic expecta…

What part of my statement is wrong?

You claimed the budget didn't keep pace with population growth but it more than did. Even an aging population doesn't change needs by such a large amount.

Re: How Palantir Will Steal the NHS

#25

Post by throwaway290 » Sat, Oct 08, 2022, 7:22 AM UTC

origin_path wrote: post #24

throwaway290 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What part of my statement is wrong?

You claimed the budget didn't keep pace with population growth but it more than did. Even an aging population doesn't change needs by such a large amount.

I actually made no claim about NHS in particular. I only pointed out that if the number of people (and heavy service users in particular, like old people) is increasing then not increasing the budget appropriately is the same as cutting it.

I don't know if it kept up or not, but the comment I replied to mentioned that in some years the budget was static so unless UK population somehow stopped growing or becoming older the effective budget per user has been effectively cut in those years.

But to your point, you may say population increased by 6% but you ignore the fact that thanks to life standards having increased there's also an ever-increasing number of old people who don't count as population increase but do increase the burden on the NHS.

Re: How Palantir Will Steal the NHS

#26

Post by throwaway290 » Sat, Oct 08, 2022, 7:24 AM UTC

origin_path wrote: post #20

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They can have it. It's broken anyway. "That's the standard technique of privatization: defund, make sure things don't work, people get angry, you hand it over to private capital."

The NHS hasn't been defunded. Check my other comment on this thread - NHS funding has never been cut and has risen far faster than the population size has. The collapse here wasn't a slow event anyway, it has very clearly been triggered by lockdowns/vaccines. The near closure of the health service in a failed attempt to slow the spread of an airborne virus created a backlog, forcing vaccines on the care home industry…

You need to track not just population but the amount of people who need the service. If population becomes older (which is generally the norm in a developed country) or otherwise less healthy (which may well be the case considering environment and food pollution) then even keeping the same number of people still requires the budget to be increased appropriately in order to be able to cover a given user equally well.

Re: How Palantir Will Steal the NHS

#27

Post by DanBC » Sun, Oct 09, 2022, 8:20 PM UTC

origin_path wrote: post #20

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They can have it. It's broken anyway. "That's the standard technique of privatization: defund, make sure things don't work, people get angry, you hand it over to private capital."

The NHS hasn't been defunded. Check my other comment on this thread - NHS funding has never been cut and has risen far faster than the population size has. The collapse here wasn't a slow event anyway, it has very clearly been triggered by lockdowns/vaccines. The near closure of the health service in a failed attempt to slow the spread of an airborne virus created a backlog, forcing vaccines on the care home industry…

> The collapse here wasn't a slow event anyway, it has very clearly been triggered by lockdowns/vaccines

Absolutely fucking mental mate.

Re: How Palantir Will Steal the NHS

#28

Post by origin_path » Mon, Oct 10, 2022, 8:05 AM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #27

origin_path wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NHS hasn't been defunded. Check my other comment on this thread - NHS funding has never been cut and has risen far faster than the population size has. The collapse here wasn't a slow event anyway, it has very clearly been triggered by lockdowns/vaccines. The near closure of the health service in a failed attempt to slow the spread of an airborne virus created a backlog, forcing vaccines on the care home industry…

> The collapse here wasn't a slow event anyway, it has very clearly been triggered by lockdowns/vaccines Absolutely fucking mental mate.

Yeah, totally mental. Me and the rest of the country, mate. The part you quoted is by far the least controversial aspect of anything I've said. In 2019 these problems weren't happening to anywhere near the same extent. Once lockdowns hit getting appointments has become drastically harder and this is widely reported.