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The mental gymnastics involved in having a high security clearance.

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Re: The mental gymnastics involved in having a high security clearance.

#21

Post by firemanx »

fragsworth wrote: post #18
throwaway31 wrote: post #11

I used to be in the intelligence field, and I held a top secret SCI clearance for about five years. What most people don't realize about classified information is that it's not the information itself that's so sensitive; it's the means via which such information is acquired that must be protected. If this were not so, targets could simply sidestep our intelligence collection vectors. I rarely dealt with any classifie…

The article spoke distinctly of security clearances that you don't even know exist. You probably didn't have those.

It's likely referring to the SCI status - the point of SCI, over and above just Secret or Top Secret, is that you have different "compartments" (clearances) for different categories of information. A guy with SCI working for the DOE would see much different information than a guy working for the DOD, or the FAA. And it's much more granular than that. I don't know anything about how the SCI compartments are created, only that you can be cleared for one more many when you reach that point, though you'll never know the full gamut of which compartments exist or don't exist until you are cleared for each one.

Thus, there are likely many clearances/compartments that a great many people don't know exist or don't exist. I suspect there isn't really anyone who knows what every compartment is.

Re: The mental gymnastics involved in having a high security clearance.

#22

Post by [deleted] »

teyc wrote: post #8

If anyone has seen the comedy series "Yes, Prime Minister", they'll often understand how a leader can be manipulated by his mandarins through selective disclosure of uncorroborated information, present consequences couched in politically unacceptable terms, force the hand by setting the agenda. This is especially true if dissenting opinion is filtered before it gets handed to the President etc. I apologize if the fol…

[deleted]

Re: The mental gymnastics involved in having a high security clearance.

#23

Post by leot »

teyc wrote: post #8

If anyone has seen the comedy series "Yes, Prime Minister", they'll often understand how a leader can be manipulated by his mandarins through selective disclosure of uncorroborated information, present consequences couched in politically unacceptable terms, force the hand by setting the agenda. This is especially true if dissenting opinion is filtered before it gets handed to the President etc. I apologize if the fol…

If a proposed war is genuinely necessary for national self-defense, then at a minimum it should be possible to convince the nation's wealthiest to pay for it. If they can't be so convinced, then the war is either unnecessary or the war's advocates are probably too incompetent to wage it effectively.

Re: The mental gymnastics involved in having a high security clearance.

#24

Post by JosephHatfield »

Even given the variations of security clearances in use, there is the requirement that classified information is always and only distributed on a "Need to Know" basis; two people with exactly the same level clearance may still have official secrets from each other.

Re: The mental gymnastics involved in having a high security clearance.

#25

Post by Tossrock »

When I first heard about the Bell-LaPadula model ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell%E2%80%93LaPadula_model ) in my security class, it was pretty eye opening, especially the notion that once you're given a certain level of access, you can no longer write at lower levels. I think it might explain in part the explosion in the amount of classified material generated each year.

Re: The mental gymnastics involved in having a high security clearance.

#26

Post by derefr »

firemanx wrote: post #21
fragsworth wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article spoke distinctly of security clearances that you don't even know exist. You probably didn't have those.

It's likely referring to the SCI status - the point of SCI, over and above just Secret or Top Secret, is that you have different "compartments" (clearances) for different categories of information. A guy with SCI working for the DOE would see much different information than a guy working for the DOD, or the FAA. And it's much more granular than that. I don't know anything about how the SCI compartments are created, o…

> I suspect there isn't really anyone who knows what every compartment is.

Unless the process is completely decentralized, there must be someone approving new compartments. They probably know at least a little about each one.

Re: The mental gymnastics involved in having a high security clearance.

#27

Post by sneak »

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #16

There's a flip side to this as well: as a voter, I don't know what information my elected leaders have when making decisions. In theory, with a small amount of secrecy needed to make diplomacy and security function, this makes sense. The problem is that it's not actually working in practice. There are so many un-elected people who have jobs for life and also the ability to classify broad swaths of information that th…

> In theory, with a small amount of secrecy needed to make diplomacy and security function, this makes sense.

It does not make sense to me. Perhaps you could explain to me how you reached this conclusion?

Re: The mental gymnastics involved in having a high security clearance.

#28

Post by lesterbuck »

throwaway31 wrote: post #11

I used to be in the intelligence field, and I held a top secret SCI clearance for about five years. What most people don't realize about classified information is that it's not the information itself that's so sensitive; it's the means via which such information is acquired that must be protected. If this were not so, targets could simply sidestep our intelligence collection vectors. I rarely dealt with any classifie…

I thought I read somewhere once that it was a violation of security procedures to reveal your security clearance level (unless it was in doing your job to access information). Is it ok to mention you used to hold a top secret SCI after the fact?

Re: The mental gymnastics involved in having a high security clearance.

#29

Post by frisco »

lesterbuck wrote: post #28
throwaway31 wrote: post #11

I used to be in the intelligence field, and I held a top secret SCI clearance for about five years. What most people don't realize about classified information is that it's not the information itself that's so sensitive; it's the means via which such information is acquired that must be protected. If this were not so, targets could simply sidestep our intelligence collection vectors. I rarely dealt with any classifie…

I thought I read somewhere once that it was a violation of security procedures to reveal your security clearance level (unless it was in doing your job to access information). Is it ok to mention you used to hold a top secret SCI after the fact?

Not in general. Notice that our friend is a throwaway account.

Re: The mental gymnastics involved in having a high security clearance.

#30

Post by extension »

derefr wrote: post #26
firemanx wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's likely referring to the SCI status - the point of SCI, over and above just Secret or Top Secret, is that you have different "compartments" (clearances) for different categories of information. A guy with SCI working for the DOE would see much different information than a guy working for the DOD, or the FAA. And it's much more granular than that. I don't know anything about how the SCI compartments are created, o…

> I suspect there isn't really anyone who knows what every compartment is. Unless the process is completely decentralized, there must be someone approving new compartments. They probably know at least a little about each one.

Once the authority to keep secrets has been delegated, it seems almost inconceivable that anybody would know all of them.
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