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A remarkable kid has died in Newcastle, Utah

deseret.com

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Re: A remarkable kid has died in Newcastle, Utah

#21

Post by bequanna »

fock wrote: post #15

So, as a European I read: mormon paper (Deseret...) hails parents who made their child work their farm. Because reading things like: > His spelling and grammar lagged behind grade level. He consistently misspelled the word “business,” and stumbled over the pronunciation of simple words. doesn't really spell hidden genius of the 21st century but probably describes millions of peasants in Europe during the middle-ages.…

So in your view, it sounds like being able to perfectly diagram a sentence is more important than understanding tax law?

Re: A remarkable kid has died in Newcastle, Utah

#22

Post by wyager »

xani_ wrote: post #5
klyrs wrote: post #3

This is some real inspiration porn. The kid sounds amazing, and it's tragic that he died so young. I have family that practices unschooling, and in their case, that means fundamentalist indoctrination, no math, no history, near illiteracy, no saleable skills or motivation to get a job or do anything independently. And I just know that they're going to send this to my mom as evidence that they're doing the right thing…

Poor kid, the family are basically gimping his start in life by a decade... it's outright abuse

The preponderance of evidence suggests that schooling has essentially zero impact on adult outcomes until around middle/high school.

Most public schools are clearly more abusive than simply not subjecting your children to the standard industrial schooling regimen.

Re: A remarkable kid has died in Newcastle, Utah

#23

Post by epolanski »

moffkalast wrote: post #7

Kid sounded like an ultra capitalistic incarnation of Von Neumann. I suppose growing up dirt poor does that to a person.

He has nothing to do with Von Neumann, a sophisticated intelllectual and the last polymath who was all about vanity and avoiding physical work.

Re: A remarkable kid has died in Newcastle, Utah

#24

Post by fock »

klyrs wrote: post #3

This is some real inspiration porn. The kid sounds amazing, and it's tragic that he died so young. I have family that practices unschooling, and in their case, that means fundamentalist indoctrination, no math, no history, near illiteracy, no saleable skills or motivation to get a job or do anything independently. And I just know that they're going to send this to my mom as evidence that they're doing the right thing…

> that means fundamentalist indoctrination, no math, no history, near illiteracy,

it looks like it was the same here. He essentially practiced the life of a middle age peasant. I guess many had their farm going by the age of 12 ... and probably didn't have some weird capitalistic, and nationalist inspiration porn ideologist in the background (because writing a pseudonymous book and then dying to young sounds like that... also the wondrous mentors...)

see for example: https://greatbasingreen.com/about-us-2/ (who is we? - would anyone write like that about themselves with those achievements ) https://www.amazon.com/Dont-Tell-Cant-Ambitious-Homeschooler...

Re: A remarkable kid has died in Newcastle, Utah

#25

Post by fock »

bequanna wrote: post #21
fock wrote: post #15

So, as a European I read: mormon paper (Deseret...) hails parents who made their child work their farm. Because reading things like: > His spelling and grammar lagged behind grade level. He consistently misspelled the word “business,” and stumbled over the pronunciation of simple words. doesn't really spell hidden genius of the 21st century but probably describes millions of peasants in Europe during the middle-ages.…

So in your view, it sounds like being able to perfectly diagram a sentence is more important than understanding tax law?

Well, to understand tax law, you need to understand language quite well (see another post these days on the frontpage...) - which usually comes with some skills in applying it. It smells a bit fishy, if you claim a person can do the first, but not the latter.

Re: A remarkable kid has died in Newcastle, Utah

#26

Post by contingencies »

bequanna wrote: post #20
contingencies wrote: post #17

Cool kid. Imagine what he could have done with supportive teachers if not burdened by poverty.

Did you read the article? His parents were immensely supportive. I can’t imagine any other situation where a parent would essentially dedicate their life to support their child’s development.

I read the article. In my reading it implied the whole family were disabled, the parents housebound, and that for half of his life the kid was effectively permanently engaged in self-directed business-linked study outside of the house.

Re: A remarkable kid has died in Newcastle, Utah

#27

Post by dc-programmer »

lo_zamoyski wrote: post #18
fzeroracer wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people celebrating this story seem weird to me because this looks more like a nightmare. It's having your entire childhood traded away in order to function in a system that's responsible for making your entire family poor. I know some people look at it as the whole 'self-made capitalist can do anything' sort of ideal but to me I see the failures of multiple systems.

I often find nebulous discussions around "systems" tiresome, not because there aren't better or worse systems, not because we can't make improvements, but because very often it results in a waste of time and energy spent on grievance and kvetching and wanting the stars to align perfectly instead of making the best of your situation.

Countries rise and fall by systems. If the US adopts an unschooling strategy that minimizes math learning, then it will certainly take the country in a direction. It’s a topic that powerful people are clearly taking sides on. I think it’s valid to discuss what the implications would be.

In general, I don’t really understand the dismissal of the use of systems language for social topics. Other domains on this site are debated in very analytical terms looking at historical factors and second order effects.

What makes social issues different where it’s uncouth to perform the same type of analyses?

Re: A remarkable kid has died in Newcastle, Utah

#28

Post by gammarator »

lo_zamoyski wrote: post #18
fzeroracer wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people celebrating this story seem weird to me because this looks more like a nightmare. It's having your entire childhood traded away in order to function in a system that's responsible for making your entire family poor. I know some people look at it as the whole 'self-made capitalist can do anything' sort of ideal but to me I see the failures of multiple systems.

I often find nebulous discussions around "systems" tiresome, not because there aren't better or worse systems, not because we can't make improvements, but because very often it results in a waste of time and energy spent on grievance and kvetching and wanting the stars to align perfectly instead of making the best of your situation.

Counterpoint: https://vimeo.com/44807536

https://www.metafilter.com/117357/Lawsuit-waiting-to-happen#...

Re: A remarkable kid has died in Newcastle, Utah

#29

Post by chiefalchemist »

contingencies wrote: post #17

Cool kid. Imagine what he could have done with supportive teachers if not burdened by poverty.

I imagine he'd be cookie like all the other cookies; as in cut by a cookie cutter that limits the majority of all the other minds cranked out of the formal K - 12 mill.
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