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NumWorks: An open-source graphing calculator (with Python and Rust support)

numworks.com

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Re: NumWorks: An open-source graphing calculator (with Python and Rust support)

#21

Post by JadeNB »

josephcsible wrote: post #17
satiric wrote: post #12

I think the creators do legitimately want to build a truly open source calculator. The problem is getting the calculator registered for exams - the examiners naturally want to make sure that the calculator isn't being used for cheating. And any method to replace the firmware, add custom applications, etc. can and should be viewed as a way to cheat on exams. Personally, I'm hopefully never going to take another standa…

> I think the creators do legitimately want to build a truly open source calculator. Then making one that wasn't certified for exams is exactly what they should have done. As it stands, they're just another TI.

> Then making one that wasn't certified for exams is exactly what they should have done. As it stands, they're just another TI.

I don't think "just another TI" should be undervalued—I remember how exciting their calculators were in my youth, and now they're, well, there's an XKCD for that (https://xkcd.com/768). Some competition that would get them back to make a real investment in innovation would be very welcome, even if it didn't result in an open-source calculator.

Re: NumWorks: An open-source graphing calculator (with Python and Rust support)

#23

Post by a-dub »

bb88 wrote: post #16

I have one. It's great. It's quite an amazing bit of tech. I wish they would split out the market, though, one for the educational market for tests and the like, and one for the professionals with wireless and more open capabilities. I would like for instance to ship images of graphs to use in a web page. Or to use it as a keyboard to type equations and calculations into documents. Or to have it connect to PyPI say t…

matlab or octave (oss clone) may be of interest to you.

for symbolic math try wolfram alpha, the matlab symbolic math toolbox or one of the symbolic math packages available for python.

Re: NumWorks: An open-source graphing calculator (with Python and Rust support)

#24

Post by gpm »

rpdillon wrote: post #8
nsajko wrote: post #7

Mods, please correct the editorialized and wrong title. NumWorks isn't open source and never was. What it is is source-available , because the source is available. Or at least it still was available the last time I looked at it. NumWorks used to be fun because it had an unlocked bootloader, allowing users to download their own software onto the calculator. But then they did a face-heel turn. To NumWorks' credit, I'm…

I've engaged in debates on HN about the definition of "open source" in the past, so there might be some disagreement about the meaning of the title. I've settled on using "OSI open source" to avoid this, since those discussions are uniformly tiring and unproductive. That said, I agree with parent: the repo specifically has a section regarding copyright and it simply says that all rights are reserved[0]. This is propr…

Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer and you should not rely on this as legal advice. Even if I'm right, it would be a stupid and expensive lawsuit.

I think that under US law you can legally clone it from github [1] and build/run it [2] without a license.

[1] GitHub has a valid license to create copies by virtue of their TOS. You aren't creating a copy, github is, and they are then lawfully transferring it to you.

[2] This is explicitly called out as something you can legally do without a license in copyright law. "All rights reserved" is just the lack of a license and doesn't prevent you from doing things that weren't illegal in the first place.: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/117

Re: NumWorks: An open-source graphing calculator (with Python and Rust support)

#25

Post by jhallenworld »

Numworks is interesting, but not really that great. The two things I don't like are: 1. the Android app is a strictly a physical calculator emulator, and does not try to be the best possible calculator for Android. 2. On the real calculator, the user interface is pretty slow- sure, it's responsive, but it's not very efficient.

So for example, it comes in last on this benchmark:

https://github.com/jhallen/calculator/wiki

Re: NumWorks: An open-source graphing calculator (with Python and Rust support)

#26

Post by nsajko »

jhallenworld wrote: post #25

Numworks is interesting, but not really that great. The two things I don't like are: 1. the Android app is a strictly a physical calculator emulator, and does not try to be the best possible calculator for Android. 2. On the real calculator, the user interface is pretty slow- sure, it's responsive, but it's not very efficient. So for example, it comes in last on this benchmark: https://github.com/jhallen/calculator/w…

Software isn't the worst thing for UI efficiency on NumWorks: the buttons are very low quality. So not only are many key presses necessary (according to your benchmark), but each key press must be relatively carefully performed to avoid the wrong key being actuated, for example.

That said, the NumWorks UI is quite intuitive.

Re: NumWorks: An open-source graphing calculator (with Python and Rust support)

#27

Post by eternityforest »

satiric wrote: post #20
nsajko wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think the creators do legitimately want to build a truly open source calculator. Somewhat like Google legitimately wants to "do no evil"? Sometimes it is said that deeds, not words is what matters. But in this case even the words are missing, so I don't really get what you're trying to say.

My point is that ultimately it was more important for them to make a calculator that students could actually use - which is a perfectly reasonable goal. And it's a shame that that's fundamentally incompatible with FOSS.

Seems highly insane that students have to buy a calculator, that can basically never be used outside of school for many people because it's so limited....

Why can't the school just have a pile of them? Then they can be totally FOSS. The teacher hands you one, they know the FW is good, you give it back, and if you want to practice at home, you can buy yourself the unlocked version which would be fully open and have more communications so it could be repurposed.

Then the same device can be sold as a smarthome IoT remote like a better Logitech Harmony, or various other random uses, and have more economies of scale.

In fact, it could just be a cheap Android device sans GPS, with no front camera(A cheap rear camera is always good for QR setup) and with real buttons and a smaller screen.

Lower resolution + transflective display + 30hz + fewer background apps is going to significantly increase battery life.

Then people can try out the CAS features on their phone, and use their calculator for whatever they might want, since it's become the obvious choice for IoT stuff.

Re: NumWorks: An open-source graphing calculator (with Python and Rust support)

#30

Post by gigatexal »

nsajko wrote: post #7

Mods, please correct the editorialized and wrong title. NumWorks isn't open source and never was. What it is is source-available , because the source is available. Or at least it still was available the last time I looked at it. NumWorks used to be fun because it had an unlocked bootloader, allowing users to download their own software onto the calculator. But then they did a face-heel turn. To NumWorks' credit, I'm…

To be allowed for use on tests it’s probably setup in such a way and locked down that proctors will allow it’s use.
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