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Amid chip shortages, companies bet on RISC-V

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Re: Amid chip shortages, companies bet on RISC-V

#21

Post by worldofmatthew »

dontlaugh wrote: post #12
packetlost wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without a company like Apple to put in the resources and engineering effort for something like Rosetta, there's really going to be next to no demand for a RISC-V based desktop computer outside of specialized development and maybe competing with ARM-based Chromebook-likes. Desktop systems are absolutely beholden to their platform and architecture because that's what determines which apps you can run. Any serious use o…

True. But I think more importantly, there will be no demand until someone makes a RISC-V CPU that can actually compete with Intel, AMD and Apple on performance.

A fees dollars saved from not paying ARM will guarantee adoption in low end laptops, tablets and smartphones.

$100 Laptops, $70 phones and $50 tablets will be a big target for RISC-V.

Re: Amid chip shortages, companies bet on RISC-V

#22

Post by justahuman74 »

conradev wrote: post #9
worldofmatthew wrote: post #3

I suspect most of RISC-V development is more towards moving away from western controlled ISA's that can be sanctioned for any reason. Points about avoid shortages from any fab being allowed to fabricate RISC-V CPUs is just the "cherry on top".

I don’t know if sanctions are the reason, but moving away from foreign-controlled IP is certainly a thing. Chinese companies make STM32 clones (even fixing the errata in the original): https://hackaday.com/2020/10/22/stm32-clones-the-good-the-ba...

I think it's more about a potential future usage of ARM in a sanctions package. Somewhat similar to how Hauwai was was hit with a list of narrow prohibitions like access to the android store.

Having an openly implementable ISA is just one less thing to worry about

Re: Amid chip shortages, companies bet on RISC-V

#23

Post by Jtsummers »

zogomoox wrote: post #19
mlindner wrote: post #11

Using RISC-V doesn't let you bypass chip shortages... Do they actually understand what they're talking about?

Eventually, if you have pin-compatible chips from several manufacturers, they could replace chips from lets say Taiwan with ones from Europe perhaps?

RISC-V isn't, fundamentally, about pin level compatibility between manufacturers. It's about the ISA and its design. It's closer to AMD/Intel both providing X86 and x64 chips. Software will (mostly, modulo proprietary extensions) run on both, but they are not physically interchangeable. A EE/CMPE (or, more likely, team of them) still has to design the actual physical chips, and that's not necessarily going to be given away so freely.

Re: Amid chip shortages, companies bet on RISC-V

#24

Post by lnsru »

mlindner wrote: post #11

Using RISC-V doesn't let you bypass chip shortages... Do they actually understand what they're talking about?

No, but the journalist needed to create some content. Here you go, it’s written. I really can’t connect RISC-V and the fact, that I can’t buy some digital and analog components. There is no processor in voltage regulators, PHY, nor in ADCs/DACs I use. These dumb parts do not benefit from RISV-V in any way.

Re: Amid chip shortages, companies bet on RISC-V

#25

Post by xadhominemx »

sremani wrote: post #20

Access to high purity quartz is the real bottle neck. You can have your own fabs and designs.. but if America and Russia refuse to sell you some Quartz.. you are out of luck! https://www.persistencemarketresearch.com/market-research/hi... .

High purity quartz is definitely not a bottleneck in the electronics industry.

Re: Amid chip shortages, companies bet on RISC-V

#26

Post by justahuman74 »

worldofmatthew wrote: post #21
dontlaugh wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True. But I think more importantly, there will be no demand until someone makes a RISC-V CPU that can actually compete with Intel, AMD and Apple on performance.

A fees dollars saved from not paying ARM will guarantee adoption in low end laptops, tablets and smartphones. $100 Laptops, $70 phones and $50 tablets will be a big target for RISC-V.

ARM could just start price-matching the various RISC-V vendors, making themselves the easier choice due to the software ecosystem

Re: Amid chip shortages, companies bet on RISC-V

#27

Post by oneplane »

justahuman74 wrote: post #22
conradev wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know if sanctions are the reason, but moving away from foreign-controlled IP is certainly a thing. Chinese companies make STM32 clones (even fixing the errata in the original): https://hackaday.com/2020/10/22/stm32-clones-the-good-the-ba...

I think it's more about a potential future usage of ARM in a sanctions package. Somewhat similar to how Hauwai was was hit with a list of narrow prohibitions like access to the android store. Having an openly implementable ISA is just one less thing to worry about

I doubt that matters considering China stole a complete copy of ARM (the company) and has already released new IP under their rebranded name.

Re: Amid chip shortages, companies bet on RISC-V

#28

Post by sremani »

xadhominemx wrote: post #25
sremani wrote: post #20

Access to high purity quartz is the real bottle neck. You can have your own fabs and designs.. but if America and Russia refuse to sell you some Quartz.. you are out of luck! https://www.persistencemarketresearch.com/market-research/hi... .

High purity quartz is definitely not a bottleneck in the electronics industry.

May be you are right, but can you add some color and context to your commentary. Like a good article link etc.

I am more than happy to chance my mind, if provided evidence.

Re: Amid chip shortages, companies bet on RISC-V

#30

Post by fipar »

mysterydip wrote: post #29

What I don't get is there's millions of "good enough" e-waste motherboards, RAM, CPUs etc. out there. Wouldn't recycling be better than having nothing or waiting indefinitely? Are there that many workloads that can only run on brand new hardware?

I think that's a good idea but then companies doing that wouldn't be able to sell their products as new, and we probably need a cultural shift before widespread adoption of refurbished and used products is doable.

Additionally, and not knowing much about the hardware side of things, if I put myself in the shoes of a manufacturer, it seems challenging to ship a product where the expected lifetime of some of its components is unknown. Support and warranties would be affected too.

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