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I hope Apple never adopts RCS

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Re: I hope Apple never adopts RCS

#21

Post by donkeyd »

elashri wrote: post #8
delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #4

The SMS/RCS/iMessage/blue bubble-green bubble debate is almost entirely exclusive to the strange market of the US. Almost everywhere else in the world, users have simply adopted a variety of 3rd-party messaging apps that use the phone's Internet rather than GSM connection, like WhatsApp, Telegram, Messenger, Signal, WeChat, etc. EDIT: While I understand the need for a 'universal E2EE messaging standard', we don't hav…

Part of reason in for many places outside US. There are no unlimited messages plan. edit: people seems to miss that I said that this is only part of the reason not the reason. I also said many places outside the US (not all). So do people down vote because they think that there are only US and EU in the world? I am missing that point.

This may have caused WhatsApp to get big in much of the EU, but by now many European countries also have unlimited text, so it's not the case any longer.

Re: I hope Apple never adopts RCS

#22

Post by izacus »

throw0101a wrote: post #13

So those of us who happen to own iPhones, and have friend who have Android devices, and would like to have (e.g.) group chats can go pound sand? Or try to get all of our friends/family to install yet another app? What is the main argument(s?) against implementing RCS? That it doesn't have E2EE? Neither does SMS, so RCS is no worse in that regard, but seems to have some extra nice things.

I keep being surprised how utterly selfish can brand fans be when it comes to their electronics toys. This doesn't affect pure Apple fanboys at all and yet they still want to mess it up.

Re: I hope Apple never adopts RCS

#23

Post by minimaul »

delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #4

The SMS/RCS/iMessage/blue bubble-green bubble debate is almost entirely exclusive to the strange market of the US. Almost everywhere else in the world, users have simply adopted a variety of 3rd-party messaging apps that use the phone's Internet rather than GSM connection, like WhatsApp, Telegram, Messenger, Signal, WeChat, etc. EDIT: While I understand the need for a 'universal E2EE messaging standard', we don't hav…

The fragmentation of these third party apps gets frustrating very fast though.

I'm in the UK and my work uses Slack and also wants me to use WhatsApp for OOH contact. My friends are mostly on Discord. My family is mostly only available via iMessage. A few of the more privacy conscious use Telegram or Signal. A few of the more OSS conscious use Matrix. Some chat is still on IRC (actually I like that...).

Users relying on third party apps over the top has strong network effects for keeping people using services from Facebook et al, and I'm not too fond of that.

I'm vaguely optimistic about the EU's idea of forcing these apps to be able to federate in at least a basic sense, but we'll see.

Re: I hope Apple never adopts RCS

#25

Post by Nextgrid »

delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #4

The SMS/RCS/iMessage/blue bubble-green bubble debate is almost entirely exclusive to the strange market of the US. Almost everywhere else in the world, users have simply adopted a variety of 3rd-party messaging apps that use the phone's Internet rather than GSM connection, like WhatsApp, Telegram, Messenger, Signal, WeChat, etc. EDIT: While I understand the need for a 'universal E2EE messaging standard', we don't hav…

Nitpick - iMessage is also Internet-based. The phone number is only checked once when you first install the phone (by Apple sending an SMS that the OS intercepts) and is then registered with Apple so that other Apple phones with iMessage enabled know that this number can receive iMessage. The carrier is no longer involved beyond the initial verification step.

You can also use iMessage with an Apple ID, including to contact those who only have a phone number (and the reverse also works). This works on non-cellular devices as well such as iPod/iPad/Mac.

Re: I hope Apple never adopts RCS

#26

Post by throw0101a »

nikanj wrote: post #3

iMessages are tied to Apple serial numbers, making spamming a lot harder. RCS would bring the spam protection to sms levels, i.e. absolutely non-existant

> iMessages are tied to Apple serial numbers, making spamming a lot harder.

Except that you can already get spam "in iMessage" because the iMessage app is also the (default) SMS app on iPhones, and so anyone can send an SMS to your phone number and you'll receive it.

> RCS would bring the spam protection to sms levels, i.e. absolutely non-existant

You already have no protection against SMS on your iMessage app, so not having protection against RCS spam is no worse than the current situation in that regard, but at least RCS has extra things like group chat which would be nice for cross-platform interoperability.

Re: I hope Apple never adopts RCS

#27

Post by threeseed »

throw0101a wrote: post #13

So those of us who happen to own iPhones, and have friend who have Android devices, and would like to have (e.g.) group chats can go pound sand? Or try to get all of our friends/family to install yet another app? What is the main argument(s?) against implementing RCS? That it doesn't have E2EE? Neither does SMS, so RCS is no worse in that regard, but seems to have some extra nice things.

The reason is that SMS is dying and being replaced by better encrypted clients.

There is no point moving to RCS which just prolongs this death and makes the current situation worse since Google has their own proprietary version of RCS.

Re: I hope Apple never adopts RCS

#28

Post by Semaphor »

dailykoder wrote: post #14
elashri wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of reason in for many places outside US. There are no unlimited messages plan. edit: people seems to miss that I said that this is only part of the reason not the reason. I also said many places outside the US (not all). So do people down vote because they think that there are only US and EU in the world? I am missing that point.

Atleast in germany (almost?) every plan has unlimited messages nowadays. Even the cheapest prepaid plan. People still use WhatsApp, Signal, etc., because of media sharing and easy group conversations

> Even the cheapest prepaid plan.

My 3.99€/month plan includes 100 SMS. Not that I ever use all of those, all of my 100 minutes, or all of my 1 GB of data.

Re: I hope Apple never adopts RCS

#29

Post by delta_p_delta_x »

agluszak wrote: post #12
delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #4

The SMS/RCS/iMessage/blue bubble-green bubble debate is almost entirely exclusive to the strange market of the US. Almost everywhere else in the world, users have simply adopted a variety of 3rd-party messaging apps that use the phone's Internet rather than GSM connection, like WhatsApp, Telegram, Messenger, Signal, WeChat, etc. EDIT: While I understand the need for a 'universal E2EE messaging standard', we don't hav…

Now, the question is: is that a good thing? SMS is like e-mail - you can have many clients for the same protocol. Don't like your built-in SMS app? Install another one. You can't do that with 3rd-party proprietary siloed communication platforms.

> You can't do that with 3rd-party proprietary siloed communication platforms

I agree, and this is unfortunate. However, they're not going away at all, and the free alternatives (IRC?) are relegated to niche developer groups. For work communications, we have Slack, Discord, Teams, Zoom; for normal messaging, the apps I mentioned above (and more; Instagram/TikTok/etc have their own DM platforms).

It will take real concerted effort to fix this, and somehow I don't see it happening.

Re: I hope Apple never adopts RCS

#30

Post by chrismorgan »

> To use iMessage, all you need is an Apple ID, which you can create for free. To use RCS, you need to have a phone number, which means that you need to have an account with a carrier. You also need to have a phone to use RCS: you can't use it on a tablet alone without LTE.

I’m under the impression you need Apple hardware to use iMessage, and that even third-party solutions rely upon proxying via real Apple hardware which has to be turned on (I get the impression some basically offer the hardware as a paid service, and others require you to own the hardware?). This tips the balance completely the other direction, as a lot more people have phone numbers than can use iMessage without further expenditure.

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