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SWATed streamer Keffals to organise protest in front of Cloudflare SF office

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Re: SWATed streamer Keffals to organise protest in front of Cloudflare SF office

#21

Post by judge2020 »

mort96 wrote: post #13
aaron695 wrote: post #5

Quoted post unavailable.

I think that tweet from Keffals was incredibly irresponsible and she was right in deleting it. I think trying to get Cloudflare to stop supporting Kiwifarms is good. You don't have to either deem a person purely good or purely bad, you can agree with some things they do and disagree with other things. It's not that hard.

To add, protests like these (and thus posts sharing the planned protest) seem like they unintentionally end up 'feeding the trolls' - what are the chances KF sees 2x to 10x the amount of new sign-ups on days where they're in the news versus when they're not?

Re: SWATed streamer Keffals to organise protest in front of Cloudflare SF office

#22

Post by bageljr »

richbell wrote: post #18
bageljr wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proof?

It's a bit strange that the burden of proof is on people contesting allegations about an anonymous person. As far as I can tell the original claim has no proof whatsoever. That said, after digging into this a bit more it seems that the most credible proof he didn't commit suicide is that the U.S. State Department has no record of it. They allegedly killed themselves in June but according to government records no US c…

1. They use they/them pronouns

2. The original claim, being that Near commited suicide due to Kiwi Farm, was documented in the link two comments up.

As another commenter said, the government records state that no US citizen died at all in Japan in June 2021. This is of course a bit ridiculous given that 50,000+ people live there and 10-12 people die per 1000 people per month in Japan. This means that around 500 US citizens should have died in Japan that month. Obviously, the US government doesn't have to account for literally all its citizens dying for any cause anywhere, just the important ones.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1011514/japan-mortality-... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americans_in_Japan

Re: SWATed streamer Keffals to organise protest in front of Cloudflare SF office

#23

Post by richbell »

bageljr wrote: post #22
richbell wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a bit strange that the burden of proof is on people contesting allegations about an anonymous person. As far as I can tell the original claim has no proof whatsoever. That said, after digging into this a bit more it seems that the most credible proof he didn't commit suicide is that the U.S. State Department has no record of it. They allegedly killed themselves in June but according to government records no US c…

1. They use they/them pronouns 2. The original claim, being that Near commited suicide due to Kiwi Farm, was documented in the link two comments up. As another commenter said, the government records state that no US citizen died at all in Japan in June 2021. This is of course a bit ridiculous given that 50,000+ people live there and 10-12 people die per 1000 people per month in Japan. This means that around 500 US ci…

> 1. They use they/them pronouns

Near used both he/him and they/them, per the person who alleged they committed suicide: https://mobile.twitter.com/marcan42/status/14104199133327237...

> 2. The original claim, being that Near commited suicide due to Kiwi Farm, was documented in the link two comments up. > > As another commenter said, the government records state that no US citizen died at all in Japan in June 2021. This is of course a bit ridiculous given that 50,000+ people live there and 10-12 people die per 1000 people per month in Japan. This means that around 500 US citizens should have died in Japan that month. Obviously, the US government doesn't have to account for literally all its citizens dying for any cause anywhere, just the important ones.

"Expected" numbers mean nothing: in the real world, unexpected things happen all the time. This is a fallacious argument reminiscent of https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_averages .

This is all wild speculation without evidence.

Re: SWATed streamer Keffals to organise protest in front of Cloudflare SF office

#24

Post by phendrenad2 »

bageljr wrote: post #11
richbell wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is the same group of trolls connected with the death of the emulator developer Near a year ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27652814 Wasn't this proven to be a hoax?

Proof?

I don't think there's conclusive evidence one way or the other. Someone claiming to be Near claimed to be committing suicide, and someone claiming to know Near claimed to have confirmation. No further evidence has surfaced. Personally I'm inclined to believe it (his last tweet still haunts me), but because an entire web forum is being accused of being responsible for it, it bears getting to the truth, at some point.

Re: SWATed streamer Keffals to organise protest in front of Cloudflare SF office

#25

Post by phendrenad2 »

IllIllIllIIlIll wrote: post #2

I would pay to hear eastdakota try to rationalize why protecting KF is a net good for the world. He professes to be a free speech absolutist, which is how they justified protecting controversial sites like The Daily Stormer and 8chan, but the purpose of KF is simply to harm specific, usually non-notable people through relentless doxxing (leading to relentless harassment or worse) usually only justified by them being…

As usual, it's a minority of users causing all of the problems. Most people on KF probably aren't doxxing or sending threats, but any time you get a group of people together to talk about someone, chances are some will take it too far. The ultimate example of this was Princess Diana (remember that?). The public was obsessed with her, and that demand fed a constant swarm of paparazzi which eventually led to her crash and death. If people were posting about her on KF, KF would surely be shut down by now.

There need to he clear rules. If we shut down every forum where someone says something bad once, are we going to shut down Facebook and Instagram? Of course not, we'll stop short of that. So we give an unfair advantage to Facebook and Instagram, forever entrenching them as the only platforms where speech can happen?

Getting back to the Princess Diana analogy, KF probably started as a harmless place to joke about public figures, but in the modern world where everyone is pushed to cultivate their own personal "brand", even someone as uninteresting as a nintendo emulator programmer, it puts regular people at risk of the worst kinds of stalking and harassment etc.

Re: SWATed streamer Keffals to organise protest in front of Cloudflare SF office

#28

Post by ekianjo »

bageljr wrote: post #11
richbell wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is the same group of trolls connected with the death of the emulator developer Near a year ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27652814 Wasn't this proven to be a hoax?

Proof?

> Proof?

So you get third party reports on the net from unknown people, and you tend to believe it at face value?

this may well have happened, but everyone should exercise a bit more caution when reading stuff online.

Re: SWATed streamer Keffals to organise protest in front of Cloudflare SF office

#29

Post by bageljr »

richbell wrote: post #23
bageljr wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. They use they/them pronouns 2. The original claim, being that Near commited suicide due to Kiwi Farm, was documented in the link two comments up. As another commenter said, the government records state that no US citizen died at all in Japan in June 2021. This is of course a bit ridiculous given that 50,000+ people live there and 10-12 people die per 1000 people per month in Japan. This means that around 500 US ci…

> 1. They use they/them pronouns Near used both he/him and they/them, per the person who alleged they committed suicide: https://mobile.twitter.com/marcan42/status/14104199133327237... > 2. The original claim, being that Near commited suicide due to Kiwi Farm, was documented in the link two comments up. > > As another commenter said, the government records state that no US citizen died at all in Japan in June 2021. T…

1. Oh I see, didn't know that. 2. Sure its an expected number, but its ridiculous that there would be literally 0 deaths given 50,000 people (this was 2012, so I expect it would have grown).

Re: SWATed streamer Keffals to organise protest in front of Cloudflare SF office

#30

Post by IllIllIllIIlIll »

phendrenad2 wrote: post #25
IllIllIllIIlIll wrote: post #2

I would pay to hear eastdakota try to rationalize why protecting KF is a net good for the world. He professes to be a free speech absolutist, which is how they justified protecting controversial sites like The Daily Stormer and 8chan, but the purpose of KF is simply to harm specific, usually non-notable people through relentless doxxing (leading to relentless harassment or worse) usually only justified by them being…

As usual, it's a minority of users causing all of the problems. Most people on KF probably aren't doxxing or sending threats, but any time you get a group of people together to talk about someone, chances are some will take it too far. The ultimate example of this was Princess Diana (remember that?). The public was obsessed with her, and that demand fed a constant swarm of paparazzi which eventually led to her crash…

> KF probably started as a harmless place to joke about public figures

There's no need to assume, we know exactly where KF started. It originally focused on one specific target before branching out, a severely autistic person known as Chris Chan who isn't notable for any reason other than being a target of incredibly intense stalking, harassment and manipulation. The site didn't need to "fall from grace" when its baseline from day one was stalking a random mentally ill person for amusement.

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