Apple’s Use of AppKit, Mac Catalyst and SwiftUI in macOS • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple’s Use of AppKit, Mac Catalyst and SwiftUI in macOS

#21

Post by happymellon » Fri, Aug 19, 2022, 9:01 PM UTC

carlycue wrote: post #17

imwillofficial wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That argument is shortsighted. Classic business school thinking. No consideration of second order effects or long term strategy. Sure, that’s where things stand today, but the Mac is part of Apples brand. They screw it up enough and iPhone won’t win on its strengths anymore. Design and execution. You’re on top of the world… Until you’re not.

> Sure, that’s where things stand today, but the Mac is part of Apples brand. They screw it up enough and iPhone won’t win on its strengths anymore. Design and execution. It used to be but not anymore. The iPhone is Apple's most important product and the majority of iPhone users aren't interested in the Mac.

That's because the majority of iPhone users are consumers.

The majority of Mac users are producers, creating content for the iPhone users. If they kill Mac then their iPhone cash cow will dwindle as they will no longer have content.

Re: Apple’s Use of AppKit, Mac Catalyst and SwiftUI in macOS

#22

Post by sharikous » Fri, Aug 19, 2022, 9:01 PM UTC

carlycue wrote: post #4

In 2021, the Mac grossed $30B. iPad ($30B) and iPhone ($196B) together grossed $226B. Mac users might think they're still the most important part of Apple but it turns out, the Mac is quite insignificant compared to Apple's mobile OS's when you put things in perspective. I am still surprised that Apple is pouring resources into the Mac. Nowadays, smartphones and tablets are the main computer for 90% of people. The so…

> The sooner Apple rebuilds Xcode from the ground up for the iPad, the quicker we can get rid of the Mac with its decades of legacy baggage.

There is still a market of billions of dollars for those people who need a general purpose machine and not a walled garden.

Even if you are right and the mac will be no more, there will be people doing general purpose computing on Linux and Raspberry pis. Those people will be willing to pay for a better experience.

Re: Apple’s Use of AppKit, Mac Catalyst and SwiftUI in macOS

#23

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Aug 19, 2022, 9:05 PM UTC

imwillofficial wrote: post #19

carlycue wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sure, that’s where things stand today, but the Mac is part of Apples brand. They screw it up enough and iPhone won’t win on its strengths anymore. Design and execution. It used to be but not anymore. The iPhone is Apple's most important product and the majority of iPhone users aren't interested in the Mac.

Let’s do a thought experiment. If the Mac disappeared today in a puff of smoke, would that result in less iPhones sold, a less prestigious brand, or maybe an improvement? An additional argument is that companies rarely have one major product. Apple is big enough to execute well on several synergistic fronts. $30b is an awesome business all on its own, and compliments, not detracts from, the iPhone brand. Apple should…

[deleted]

Re: Apple’s Use of AppKit, Mac Catalyst and SwiftUI in macOS

#24

Post by JasonFruit » Fri, Aug 19, 2022, 9:05 PM UTC

rvanmil wrote: post #7

I remember making fun of Microsoft trying to combine mouse and touch in a single UI. And yet here we are, Apple doing the same thing to macOS, resulting in the same shit desktop/mouse experience that macOS has become. I understand the reasons but it seems so incredibly un-Apple to sacrifice UX for this.

Maybe it's the year of Linux on the desktop!

Re: Apple’s Use of AppKit, Mac Catalyst and SwiftUI in macOS

#25

Post by Apocryphon » Fri, Aug 19, 2022, 9:07 PM UTC

carlycue wrote: post #17

imwillofficial wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That argument is shortsighted. Classic business school thinking. No consideration of second order effects or long term strategy. Sure, that’s where things stand today, but the Mac is part of Apples brand. They screw it up enough and iPhone won’t win on its strengths anymore. Design and execution. You’re on top of the world… Until you’re not.

> Sure, that’s where things stand today, but the Mac is part of Apples brand. They screw it up enough and iPhone won’t win on its strengths anymore. Design and execution. It used to be but not anymore. The iPhone is Apple's most important product and the majority of iPhone users aren't interested in the Mac.

There's huge amounts of work that can only be done on desktop or on laptops, and not on smartphones, simply because of form factor. Unless we're imagining a future where people plug their phones and tablets into monitor-keyboard setups and type away, all the time.

Re: Apple’s Use of AppKit, Mac Catalyst and SwiftUI in macOS

#26

Post by freediver » Fri, Aug 19, 2022, 9:09 PM UTC

carlycue wrote: post #4

In 2021, the Mac grossed $30B. iPad ($30B) and iPhone ($196B) together grossed $226B. Mac users might think they're still the most important part of Apple but it turns out, the Mac is quite insignificant compared to Apple's mobile OS's when you put things in perspective. I am still surprised that Apple is pouring resources into the Mac. Nowadays, smartphones and tablets are the main computer for 90% of people. The so…

> I am still surprised that Apple is pouring resources into the Mac. Nowadays, smartphones and tablets are the main computer for 90% of people.

All those apps used by people on smatphones and tablets get developed on a Mac.

You should also compare sales trends vs point in time stats to get a better picture, as Mac sales got a significant boost with the introduction of the M1 chip.

Re: Apple’s Use of AppKit, Mac Catalyst and SwiftUI in macOS

#27

Post by feifan » Fri, Aug 19, 2022, 9:10 PM UTC

cpach wrote: post #8

carlycue wrote: post #4

In 2021, the Mac grossed $30B. iPad ($30B) and iPhone ($196B) together grossed $226B. Mac users might think they're still the most important part of Apple but it turns out, the Mac is quite insignificant compared to Apple's mobile OS's when you put things in perspective. I am still surprised that Apple is pouring resources into the Mac. Nowadays, smartphones and tablets are the main computer for 90% of people. The so…

As a Mac fanboi I wish I could refute your argument, but… those numbers are pretty telling.

$30B is still A LOT in absolute terms

Re: Apple’s Use of AppKit, Mac Catalyst and SwiftUI in macOS

#28

Post by alexashka » Fri, Aug 19, 2022, 9:11 PM UTC

Meh. Apple has near infinite resources, it can do whatever it wants.

The rest of industry has moved on to Electron and keeps bucking, trying to get react native or some other cross platform thing to work well enough on mobile.

Apple itself uses webviews for complex UI in their desktop Music app. Are there any non-trivial apps Apple has created from scratch in the past decade using its own libraries and frameworks? No, right? Why should anyone expect the libraries they themselves don't need or use to be any good?

Re: Apple’s Use of AppKit, Mac Catalyst and SwiftUI in macOS

#29

Post by linguae » Fri, Aug 19, 2022, 9:15 PM UTC

rvanmil wrote: post #7

I remember making fun of Microsoft trying to combine mouse and touch in a single UI. And yet here we are, Apple doing the same thing to macOS, resulting in the same shit desktop/mouse experience that macOS has become. I understand the reasons but it seems so incredibly un-Apple to sacrifice UX for this.

Exactly. I haven’t upgraded my Macs since Mojave, for this and other reasons. I’ve grown increasingly disillusioned with the direction of the Mac under Tim Cook. What happened to the Macintosh emphasis on building software for creators that was easy to use? Last year I moved on to Windows 10 on a Surface Pro and a dual boot Windows 10 and FreeBSD with KDE on a Ryzen 9 workstation. I still have my 2013 MacBook Air and Mac Pro whenever I need a Mac, but my Surface Pro and Ryzen 9 workstation fit my needs.

With that said, this is an interim solution; I’m actually working on my own desktop environment as a long-term solution, since I’m disillusioned with what modern personal computing has become, devices and software that promote consumption over creation, and environments that encourage walled gardens and large moats instead of interoperable, interchangeable components. What I want is essentially the classic Mac interface with Smalltalk- or Lisp machine-style underpinnings; the power to mold my environment to my taste, but with user applications that abide by the 1990s-era Macintosh Human Interface Guidelines, when Apple had UI/UX heavyweights like Don Norman and Bruce Tognazzini influencing the Mac’s direction.

Re: Apple’s Use of AppKit, Mac Catalyst and SwiftUI in macOS

#30

Post by Apocryphon » Fri, Aug 19, 2022, 9:17 PM UTC

rvanmil wrote: post #7

I remember making fun of Microsoft trying to combine mouse and touch in a single UI. And yet here we are, Apple doing the same thing to macOS, resulting in the same shit desktop/mouse experience that macOS has become. I understand the reasons but it seems so incredibly un-Apple to sacrifice UX for this.

Eh, it's not that crazy unless they put a touchscreen on MacBooks.