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Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

bloomberg.com

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Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#21

Post by enragedcacti »

devnulll wrote: post #4

> Putting a motor on each wheel — or at least one on each axle — could translate into hair-raising EV driving performance. I don't understand this. My Plaid Tesla has a motor on each of the rear axles, and it's direct coupled to the wheel. The already are doing torque vectoring. Like all things in engineering, the trade-off's are critical. This article doesn't go at all into the pros/cons of the approach Tesla (and o…

The Pros are volume and weight and the con is probably primarily price. Lower weight and volume means you have a lot more options on where they go and where you can put batteries that you couldn't before. In the article they mentioned the Koenegsegg Regera which is a perfect example of where this motor works well. A two-seater with an 1100HP V8 and 9kWh of battery that also needs world class handling makes weight and volume massively important and the MSRP of $4 million makes cost practically irrelevant.

The Gemera is a bit different but is using the same motor tech and you can see how it allows them to pack things very tightly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwlNqaz9q_0

For Tesla they already have a huge car with a battery design that works and a large area for the motors so re-engineering the S to make use of the space you save was probably not a good idea, especially when they are already building the roadster. I also wouldn't be surprised if its a bit of a Not-Invented-Here problem considering how much they value vertical integration.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#22

Post by metadat »

Barrin92 wrote: post #19
metadat wrote: post #9

Why do EVs of the current age look so douchie? I wouldn't be caught dead in one. Tesla model S, X, and Y. All Lucid models. Mercedes and Ferraris. Why can't they look neutral? I want low-key, efficient, safe, and functional. And ideally more than 35 American miles of range.

kind of comes with the 'high performance' part. When have those cars never looked douchie? If you want a functional electrical car there's Renault/Hyundai/Honda

Which Honda is full electric? I searched the web and they're arriving in 2024...

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#23

Post by clouddrover »

metadat wrote: post #9

Why do EVs of the current age look so douchie? I wouldn't be caught dead in one. Tesla model S, X, and Y. All Lucid models. Mercedes and Ferraris. Why can't they look neutral? I want low-key, efficient, safe, and functional. And ideally more than 35 American miles of range.

> I want low-key, efficient, safe, and functional.

Here you go. A Kia EV6 GT:

https://www.thedrive.com/news/2023-kia-ev6-specs-debut-revea...

Or maybe you want a BMW i4. The eDrive 40 has more range, the M50 has more performance:

https://www.thedrive.com/news/40872/2022-bmw-i4-edrive40-and...

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#24

Post by mechanical_bear »

it_citizen wrote: post #20

While I like the technology aspect, I am secretly rooting for expensive cars to become uncool. Small boring self-driving cars, possibly collectively owned instead of big expensive individually owned cars often used as a proof of social status.

Why?

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#25

Post by judge2020 »

clouddrover wrote: post #12
devnulll wrote: post #4

> Putting a motor on each wheel — or at least one on each axle — could translate into hair-raising EV driving performance. I don't understand this. My Plaid Tesla has a motor on each of the rear axles, and it's direct coupled to the wheel. The already are doing torque vectoring. Like all things in engineering, the trade-off's are critical. This article doesn't go at all into the pros/cons of the approach Tesla (and o…

> As a general rule, if Tesla isn't doing it already I suspect it's either not economically feasible, difficult to manufacture, or otherwise has drawbacks they've judged signifigant. That's not a very good rule. There a lots of things Tesla doesn't do. - Tesla doesn't do battery swaps, but NIO does. NIO's done it 10 million times: https://www.nio.com/blog/nio-users-china-have-completed-10-m... - Tesla doesn't do 350…

Technically all of those are covered under "otherwise has drawbacks they've judged significant", but I think they meant "in the realm of EV performance": the Plaid is still the fastest car you can buy without dropping a half million on a SF90 or even more on a limited-run supercar.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#26

Post by MuffinFlavored »

it_citizen wrote: post #20

While I like the technology aspect, I am secretly rooting for expensive cars to become uncool. Small boring self-driving cars, possibly collectively owned instead of big expensive individually owned cars often used as a proof of social status.

> I am secretly rooting for expensive cars to become uncool.

Are you also secretly rooting for yummy foods to uncool while bland foods take their place?

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#27

Post by clouddrover »

judge2020 wrote: post #25
clouddrover wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a general rule, if Tesla isn't doing it already I suspect it's either not economically feasible, difficult to manufacture, or otherwise has drawbacks they've judged signifigant. That's not a very good rule. There a lots of things Tesla doesn't do. - Tesla doesn't do battery swaps, but NIO does. NIO's done it 10 million times: https://www.nio.com/blog/nio-users-china-have-completed-10-m... - Tesla doesn't do 350…

Technically all of those are covered under "otherwise has drawbacks they've judged significant", but I think they meant "in the realm of EV performance": the Plaid is still the fastest car you can buy without dropping a half million on a SF90 or even more on a limited-run supercar.

> Technically all of those are covered under "otherwise has drawbacks they've judged significant"

Pray tell, what are these significant drawbacks?

> the Plaid is still the fastest car you can buy without dropping a half million

Nope: https://www.theverge.com/2022/8/19/23312956/lucid-air-sapphi...

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#28

Post by Barrin92 »

metadat wrote: post #22
Barrin92 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

kind of comes with the 'high performance' part. When have those cars never looked douchie? If you want a functional electrical car there's Renault/Hyundai/Honda

Which Honda is full electric? I searched the web and they're arriving in 2024...

the Honda e. You're right that apparently in the US it isn't available yet, wasn't aware of that as I don't live in the states. Very good small EV.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#29

Post by nimbius »

it_citizen wrote: post #20

While I like the technology aspect, I am secretly rooting for expensive cars to become uncool. Small boring self-driving cars, possibly collectively owned instead of big expensive individually owned cars often used as a proof of social status.

call me a skeptic, I've worked in the auto industry as a heavy engine master tech for over 20 years, but the same luxury manufacturers who can't make a v8 that lasts longer than 60k miles without a recall or major defect are not qualified to skip class and start making Ev's.

Mercedes rolled out the 250 largely because biturbo has been a loss leading qc dumpster fire for the last decade. Audi can barely handle infotainment that doesn't brick and reboot on a road trip and BMW has turned their technology package into a monthly milk truck that fleeces people for basics you get out the door from Toyota. if Tesla were to hit the ground with a car thats 10k less than the 3 in 2022 it would bury these gilded Lillie's from across the pond faster than the m5pvl gear in a 7 series punches out and seizes a 20k transmission.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#30

Post by sparrc »

metadat wrote: post #9

Why do EVs of the current age look so douchie? I wouldn't be caught dead in one. Tesla model S, X, and Y. All Lucid models. Mercedes and Ferraris. Why can't they look neutral? I want low-key, efficient, safe, and functional. And ideally more than 35 American miles of range.

Hyundai kona and ioniq, chevy bolt, nissan leaf.

These all seem pretty normal to me.

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