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California to consider keeping last nuclear plant open

arstechnica.com

21–24 of 24 posts

Re: California to consider keeping last nuclear plant open

#21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nuclear paired with pumped hydro is very flexible, being able to handle peaks at any time. It's also very reliable, since the vast majority of outages are scheduled, and the plant's output can be increased or decreased to ensure there is enough surplus to store enough energy to meet expected peak demand. It also uses much less land and material resources, and results in less waste, substantially reducing damage to th…

Most of this is false, if you're trying to imply solar plus hydro is worse than nuclear and hydro. Taking them in order: Demand is higher during the day. solar matches this better than the flat production of nuclear, so less storage per watt of production is needed for cheap solar energy when used to pump hydro storage, and even non pumped hydro can be varied to complement solar production and demand needs (within ce…

> I very much doubt nuclear takes less material resources.

In the case of an existing nuclear power plant it does. Because if you shut it down, the plant is still going to be there, except that it won't produce anything.

California has been building solar like crazy for the last 5 years if not more. Nobody is saying stop building solar. Nobody is even saying build nuclear. The only thing this proposal is saying is don't shut down a very large existing nuclear power plant, at least not until we get to carbon neutral.

If you are suggesting that somehow by shutting down this power plant you can get faster to net zero, then we're all very eager to hear the details.

Re: California to consider keeping last nuclear plant open

#22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, peak electricity demand is in the evening right as the sun sets.

This isn't true. The peak demand that remains after solar has lowered the actual peak, is in the evening. And that's when you use hydro and batteries. Here's the historical yearly peaks: https://www.caiso.com/documents/californiaisopeakloadhistory... Note, in recent years this ignores home based solar, which also reduce the grid seen demand during the day, but the new peak is still before sunset. The local grid refer…

Energy use peaks at around 6pm, which is well after solar's peak production: https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=42915

Your own sources show this, with energy peaking around 1700 or 1730 (which is 5-5:30 pm). "Demand management" is a euphemism for blackouts. You can mail notices and flyers, but energy users don't change their consumption patterns.

Re: California to consider keeping last nuclear plant open

#23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nuclear paired with pumped hydro is very flexible, being able to handle peaks at any time. It's also very reliable, since the vast majority of outages are scheduled, and the plant's output can be increased or decreased to ensure there is enough surplus to store enough energy to meet expected peak demand. It also uses much less land and material resources, and results in less waste, substantially reducing damage to th…

Most of this is false, if you're trying to imply solar plus hydro is worse than nuclear and hydro. Taking them in order: Demand is higher during the day. solar matches this better than the flat production of nuclear, so less storage per watt of production is needed for cheap solar energy when used to pump hydro storage, and even non pumped hydro can be varied to complement solar production and demand needs (within ce…

My points were that nuclear is flexible and reliable. Your point seems to be that solar's output is closer to average demand and has a lower price. These are totally separate design goals. My view is that flexibility and reliability are core design goals because they reduce resource use by decreasing the need for storage and long-range transmission, and because they reduce the risk of energy shortages, which have serious social consequences. Why do you think matching average demand and reducing monetary price are core design goals?

Your claims on land use and material use are empirically false.

Re: California to consider keeping last nuclear plant open

#24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of this is false, if you're trying to imply solar plus hydro is worse than nuclear and hydro. Taking them in order: Demand is higher during the day. solar matches this better than the flat production of nuclear, so less storage per watt of production is needed for cheap solar energy when used to pump hydro storage, and even non pumped hydro can be varied to complement solar production and demand needs (within ce…

> I very much doubt nuclear takes less material resources. In the case of an existing nuclear power plant it does. Because if you shut it down, the plant is still going to be there, except that it won't produce anything. California has been building solar like crazy for the last 5 years if not more. Nobody is saying stop building solar. Nobody is even saying build nuclear. The only thing this proposal is saying is do…

A lot of people say that, actually.
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