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The semantic web is dead – Long live the semantic web

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Re: The semantic web is dead – Long live the semantic web

#21
post #13

JSON-LD has some traction, but the author seems to prefer a slightly different syntax. I don't see a material difference, but I'm curious to know what others think. -- https://w3c.github.io/json-ld-bp/#contexts -- https://w3c.github.io/json-ld-bp/#example-example-typed-rela... -- https://terminusdb.com/docs/index/terminusx-db/reference-gui...

Well, in one sense the are directly interconvertable. The documents in TerminusDB are elaborated to JSON-LD internally during type-checking and inference.

However, it's not just a question of whether one can be made into another. The use of contexts is very cumbersome, since you need to specify different contexts at different properties for different types. It makes far more sense to simply have a schema and perform the elaboration from there. Plus without an infrastructure for keys, Ids become extremely cumbersome. So beyond just type decorations on the leaves, It's the difference between:

  {
    "general_variables": {
      "alternative_name": ["Sadozai Kingdom", "Last Afghan Empire" ],
      "language":"latin"
    },
    "name":"AfDurrn",
    "social_complexity_variables": {
      "hierarchical_complexity": {"admin_levels":"five"},
      "information": {"articles":"present"}
    },
    "warfare_variables": {
      "military_technologies": {
        "atlatl":"present",
        "battle_axes":"present",
        "breastplates":"present"
      }
    }
  }
And

  {
    "@id":"Polity/7286b191f5f62a05290b8961fd8836a26ddc8399611b216fae4aaacc58ba6c11",
    "@type":"Polity",
    "general_variables": {
      "@id":"Polity/7286b191f5f62a05290b8961fd8836a26ddc8399611b216fae4aaacc58ba6c11/general_variables/GeneralVariables/e4360ee3766c2863f06a34ffcdd9869d41b03d04c6f6af5f94b0a14a47e8e704",
      "@type":"GeneralVariables",
      "alternative_name": ["Last Afghan Empire", "Sadozai Kingdom" ],
      "language":"latin"
    },
    "name":"AfDurrn",
    "social_complexity_variables": {
      "@id":"Polity/7286b191f5f62a05290b8961fd8836a26ddc8399611b216fae4aaacc58ba6c11/social_complexity_variables/SocialComplexityVariables/191353c4b7138842ec4029dd07fbd63c9dda752f0cd72b1584f046a274cf024c",
      "@type":"SocialComplexityVariables",
      "hierarchical_complexity": {
        "@id":"Polity/7286b191f5f62a05290b8961fd8836a26ddc8399611b216fae4aaacc58ba6c11/social_complexity_variables/Polity/7286b191f5f62a05290b8961fd8836a26ddc8399611b216fae4aaacc58ba6c11/social_complexity_variables/SocialComplexityVariables/191353c4b7138842ec4029dd07fbd63c9dda752f0cd72b1584f046a274cf024c/hierarchical_complexity/HierarchicalComplexity/d6a772c5c6919cc511a24ab89f908032aa32b1e3e939d2e0c32044b3a5d9151d",
        "@type":"HierarchicalComplexity",
        "admin_levels":"five"
      },
      "information": {
        "@id":"Polity/7286b191f5f62a05290b8961fd8836a26ddc8399611b216fae4aaacc58ba6c11/social_complexity_variables/Polity/7286b191f5f62a05290b8961fd8836a26ddc8399611b216fae4aaacc58ba6c11/social_complexity_variables/SocialComplexityVariables/191353c4b7138842ec4029dd07fbd63c9dda752f0cd72b1584f046a274cf024c/information/Information/2f557c1016552f30b8d8bb1bdd9a8584791dd06d32f25bded86a7eb59788ea7f",
        "@type":"Information",
        "articles":"present"
      }
    },
    "warfare_variables": {
      "@id":"Polity/7286b191f5f62a05290b8961fd8836a26ddc8399611b216fae4aaacc58ba6c11/warfare_variables/WarfareVariables/704a2c1854a2fe80616fbea0ef0dcd6ce47f5174529ca191617e42397108c437",
      "@type":"WarfareVariables",
      "military_technologies": {
        "@id":"Polity/7286b191f5f62a05290b8961fd8836a26ddc8399611b216fae4aaacc58ba6c11/warfare_variables/Polity/7286b191f5f62a05290b8961fd8836a26ddc8399611b216fae4aaacc58ba6c11/warfare_variables/WarfareVariables/704a2c1854a2fe80616fbea0ef0dcd6ce47f5174529ca191617e42397108c437/military_technologies/MilitaryTechnologies/80a91b3e5381154387bde4afc66fdd38834de16c671c49c769f5244475cbbb1b",
        "@type":"MilitaryTechnologies",
        "atlatl":"present",
        "battle_axes":"present",
        "breastplates":"present"
      }
    }
  }

Re: The semantic web is dead – Long live the semantic web

#22

The entire movement felt like a massive tragedy of the commons. There is just no incentive for any single player to push the standard forward and the commercial players are already reaping enough benefits from Web 2.0 that putting more money in Semantic Web makes no sense. Semantic Web was supposed to be the Web 3.0. It's so dead now that even its name is stolen by the blockchain. RIP.

[deleted]

Re: The semantic web is dead – Long live the semantic web

#23
I think the general message here is that complex and complete architectures tend to fail in favor of simpler solutions that people can understand and use to get things done in the here and now.

Its interesting to me that the recent uptick in the personal knowledge management space (aka tools for thought)[0] is all around the bi-directional graph which is basically a 2-tuple simplified version of the RDF 3-tuple. You lose the semantics of a labelled edge, but its easier for people to understand.

[0] See Roam Research, Obsidian, LogSeq, Dendron et al.

Re: The semantic web is dead – Long live the semantic web

#24
Having worked for an Academic Publisher that had intense interest in this I finally came to the following conclusions to why this is DOA.

1. Producers of content are unwilling to pay for it (and neither are consumers BTW) 2. It is impossible to predict how the ontology will change over time so going back and reclassifying documents to make them useful is expensive. 3. Most pieces of info have a shelf life so it is not worth the expense of doing it. 4. Search is good enough and much easier. 5. Much of what is published is incorrect or partial so.

In the end I decided this is akin to discussing why everybody should use Lisp to program but the world has a differ opinion.

Re: The semantic web is dead – Long live the semantic web

#25

The entire movement felt like a massive tragedy of the commons. There is just no incentive for any single player to push the standard forward and the commercial players are already reaping enough benefits from Web 2.0 that putting more money in Semantic Web makes no sense. Semantic Web was supposed to be the Web 3.0. It's so dead now that even its name is stolen by the blockchain. RIP.

[deleted]

Re: The semantic web is dead – Long live the semantic web

#27
For a year and a half, I worked on a project called OSLC: Open Services for Lifecycle Collaboration [0] which became an Oasis Open Project. It's an open community building practical specifications for integrating software. For software tools that adopt and provide OSLC enabled APIs, data integration and supported use cases become really easy.

As an example, if your department prefers Tool A for defining requirements (Aha, etc ...), Tool B for change management (bugzilla, etc ...) and Tool C for test management and they aren't already a unified platform, it can be hard to gain semantic context across them. I've seen many situations where dev teams prefer a specific FOSS/vendor change management tracking tool while testers prefer a different thing and are unwilling to change because of historical test automation investment. To illustrate, imagine I run a test and it fails. I want to open a bug and have it linked to this failing test and also associate it with an existing requirement. If all 3 tools are OSLC API enabled consumers/producers, then their data can be integrated together trivially and experiences can be far more seamless and pleasant to all involved (e.g. testers can have popups to query (find/select reqmnts) or delegated creates (open new bug)) without leaving their own familiar test tool's UI. Nice. Anything can have an OSLC enabled API adapter from existing servers to spreadsheets (with an associated proxy server). It has great promise in bringing FOSS/vendor tooling together.

In a nutshell, it's a set of standards around building a digital thread for tools to integrate together. Workstreams are focused per domain (quality management, change management, requirements management, etc ...) [1]. Linked Data and RDF are its core tech underpinning [2]

[0] https://open-services.net/

[1] https://open-services.net/specifications/#active-publication...

[2] https://oslc.github.io/developing-oslc-applications/technica...

Re: The semantic web is dead – Long live the semantic web

#28
Lots of good points raised, necessary discussion.

My take is that we know a lot of this already but refuse to accept the solutions. The way to exchange data and the way to relate and query data is both known to a large extent; canonical S-expressions and datalog-ish expressivity. I just can't understand why no one thinks datalisp.is a persuasive foundation.

Re: The semantic web is dead – Long live the semantic web

#29
post #8
post #4

Funnily enough, the why semantic web is good section is the section that actually identifies why it failed. We are going to have an ultra flexible data model that everyone can just participate in? That never works. Protocols work by restricting possibilities not allowing everything. The more possibilities you allow, the more room for subtle incompatibilities and the more effort you have to spend massaging everything…

That's discussed in the article though. The open world assumption is untenable. Having shareable interoperable schemata that can refer to each-other safely would be a god send however. And that's what is currently very hard but needn't be.

What is "unsafe, untenable or hard" about embedding some JSON-LD (which is just some JSON metadata, transformed using a small JS library), like I did here: https://twitter.com/conzept__/status/1552719001826074625

Whether you trust the URIs or the data that was placed there is not a problem for the semantic web. The fact that you _can_ state these things and relate to other resources and concepts on the web is already wonderful and useful in itself. Google is reading this metadata and relating it to their trust/ranking-graph. The semantic web 'community' could do the same later also, in a more decentralized way (blockhain web IDs perhaps?). For now it all works fine.

Re: The semantic web is dead – Long live the semantic web

#30
We're trying to make semantic web models easier to use with a project called TreeLDR...I think usability has been one of the biggest issues of this ecosystem and OSS in general. Think programmer-friendly data structure definitions that compile to JSON-LD contexts, jsonschemas, and beyond.

https://github.com/spruceid/treeldr

Shameless plug: we're hiring if you like this kind of stuff and Rust.

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