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Why is recruiting developers so difficult?

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Re: Why is recruiting developers so difficult?

#21

Post by andrewstuart »

I'm a developer and a recruiter.

Here are some thing I know:

many companies - maybe most companies - are very slow. I cannot tell you how many times I have sent a great candidate to an employer, to hear in 2 weeks that they would like to interview them, despite my pestering them the whole time for feedback. You know what they say then? "Oh well, who else have you got?". They don't care.

the companies I work with who succeed in recruiting people get the entire process wrapped up within 2 to 3 days, from the moment the resume arrives in their email server, to signature on paper, candidate off the job market. When companies lament "Oh it's so hard to find people!", that's who they are competing with - a 3 day turnaround.

many companies don't even know what makes a great developer - can't define a great developer

many companies have abysmal processes for assessing people

many companies value the wrong things in potential people

many companies pay less than market rates

don't get me started on coding tests.

but ALL companies think that none of the above apply to them. all companies think they are awesome at recruiting and that they run the very best recruiting process possible.

so is it hard to recruit developers? Well yes - but not because there aren't great developers available.

will a new software tool fix it? no.

Re: Why is recruiting developers so difficult?

#22

Post by glouwbug »

Victerius wrote: post #18
gsibble wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By my mid-30s and having started programming at 9 and professionally at 14, 200k is chump change for a salary. That's what they really haven't caught up to.

200k is not chump change for every other profession. Get off your high horse. You're not special because you know software.

Money really doesn't much once you've hit financial independence. I can live out the rest of my days with $1m invested. $200K-$500k annual salary, hell, even $100k, is enough at that point.

Re: Why is recruiting developers so difficult?

#23

Post by karamanolev »

kube-system wrote: post #20
voidfunc wrote: post #9

Number one reason: You're not offering me enough good reasons to leave my current job. I don't think HR and software recruiting has really caught up to the reality that many developers by their mid-30's are sitting on a million+ in assets and good ones can rake in 200K+ easy. Further we usually find equilibrium with our roles wherever we are even if we have gripes with how things are because most devs are pragmatic p…

Don't write off a company just because they have an unlimited PTO policy. Check out the culture first, some actually respect it. Especially in smaller companies, it's sometimes just easier to judge people based on their output rather than the number of days their butt is behind a keyboard.

> some actually respect it

I'm yet to see one or hear from a friend who works in one. I admit there might exist one somewhere, but by and large, they don't. Unlimited PTO = culture of overworking, at least for me. And small companies with unlimited PTO, 3-5 engineer teams (and some other staff, obviously) seem to be the worst offenders. The bigger the company, the higher the chance unlimited PTO might actually work.

That being said, I'd love if someone can teach me how to tell them apart.

Re: Why is recruiting developers so difficult?

#24

Post by gsibble »

Victerius wrote: post #18
gsibble wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By my mid-30s and having started programming at 9 and professionally at 14, 200k is chump change for a salary. That's what they really haven't caught up to.

200k is not chump change for every other profession. Get off your high horse. You're not special because you know software.

I wrote banking software that took a company's valuation from $400 million to $6 billion when it went public. That's not a special ability?

Re: Why is recruiting developers so difficult?

#25

Post by jdminhbg »

Victerius wrote: post #18
gsibble wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By my mid-30s and having started programming at 9 and professionally at 14, 200k is chump change for a salary. That's what they really haven't caught up to.

200k is not chump change for every other profession. Get off your high horse. You're not special because you know software.

> You're not special because you know software.

The article is about how hard it is to recruit developers, so presumably they are in fact at least a little bit special because they know software.

Re: Why is recruiting developers so difficult?

#26

Post by yupper32 »

gsibble wrote: post #8

Personally, I've never found it difficult. Have 1-2 interviews with a take home or in person coding exercise or however they want to prove to me they can actually code. Pay high, have great benefits, high equity, treat your employees well, and fire those that don't perform up to expectations quickly. It's really not hard to spot talent. Don't make them jump through hoops. If they are talented and get along with your…

> Have 1-2 interviews with a take home.

> fire those that don't perform up to expectations quickly.

This attitude is why I haven't been recruited. I have 10 years at big tech and companies expect me to jump ship with the threat of getting fired if I don't immediately live up to expectations (even if I'm confident that I will, but I'll never know how high your expectations are until it's too late). Add on wild take home assignments on top of my full time job and (typically) less pay than big tech.

It's simply not worth the trouble.

Re: Why is recruiting developers so difficult?

#27

Post by Arcanum-XIII »

Quite often it’s because you want someone with very high qualification (engineering, spoken langage in my country, experience…) to develop a crud app. All the while without good compensation, requesting them to be in an open office 5 days per week, and with dubious low end Dell that you insist on managing yourself. Of course you’ll then speak about family (to be understood as « you will not see yours anymore, slave ») or offering subpar pizza.

Re: Why is recruiting developers so difficult?

#28

Post by jph »

The #1 area to improve IMHO is enabling people to get to know the company and team in depth ahead of time.

One way that works well is for companies to try using techniques of college recruiting, because the level of commitment has parallels: a one-time high-stakes multi-year decision, that involves many new people, new schedules, and new learning.

The getting-to-know-you approach leads directly to teams making smarter choices overall, such as publishing interesting sections of their own codebase, writing about challenging areas of their own workflows, and so forth.

When the teams directly show people the real work and the real organization, then the recruiting experience can become more like a college campus tour-- the developer gains a better understanding of what's involved, and where the learning and growth opportunities are, and why it's worthwhile to apply.

Re: Why is recruiting developers so difficult?

#29

Post by gsibble »

radicaldreamer wrote: post #17
gsibble wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By my mid-30s and having started programming at 9 and professionally at 14, 200k is chump change for a salary. That's what they really haven't caught up to.

This is only true for US salaries (and sometimes specifically within Bay Area/Seattle/New York markets)... pretty much everywhere else, salaries are a lot lower. L7 salaries are 300k base and around 400k equity in the US, so hiring experienced/accomplished developers is intensely difficult for companies outside of the top tier with high margins or startups with potential exits.

Definitely only true for US and certain geographical areas, including the one I'm in. All I'm really saying is top-tier, experienced talent in top paying geographies make significantly more than $200k.

Re: Why is recruiting developers so difficult?

#30

Post by claudiulodro »

gsibble wrote: post #11
voidfunc wrote: post #9

Number one reason: You're not offering me enough good reasons to leave my current job. I don't think HR and software recruiting has really caught up to the reality that many developers by their mid-30's are sitting on a million+ in assets and good ones can rake in 200K+ easy. Further we usually find equilibrium with our roles wherever we are even if we have gripes with how things are because most devs are pragmatic p…

By my mid-30s and having started programming at 9 and professionally at 14, 200k is chump change for a salary. That's what they really haven't caught up to.

I dunno, I think this might be a bias of your social circle. Looking at the latest levels.fyi submissions[1], the majority are for [1] https://www.levels.fyi/comp.html?track=Software%20Engineer&s...
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