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High IQ linked to drug use

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Re: High IQ linked to drug use

#21

Post by bad_user »

porfirio wrote: post #10
bambax wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How about alcohol? From the article: > The lead researcher says he isn't surprised by the findings. "Previous research found for the most part people with high IQs lead a healthy life, but that they are more likely to drink to excess as adults," says James White a psychologist at Cardiff University in the United Kingdom. What the article doesn't explore is the fact that drugs are expensive; isn't it possible that d…

"IQ is also correlated with revenue (probably because that's what it actually measures: socio-economic class)" False. Charles Murray compared brothers of the same household of different intelligence levels, and found significant disparities in income. http://www.eugenics.net/papers/murray.html (article originally appeared in The Telegraph) It's more accurate to say socioeconomic class measures IQ, rather than the oth…

     they ultimately don't believe IQ is highly 
     heritable, which it is
I don't think anybody sane questions that, but what people are saying and that studies so far have confirmed ...

1) small variations in IQ tests don't matter, like for example the difference between 120 and 140 being negligible and depends a lot on external factors, like rest, vitamins in your blood-stream and mood ... give a person several IQ tests over a period of time and he'll score differently every single time

2) you can increase your IQ score with a certain amount of points just by making your brain work harder. Physical exercises work too (professional athletes are above average)

Ultimately the most common complaint is that intelligence (while hereditary) is not something you can accurately measure and that IQ tests are inherently not reliable.

Re: High IQ linked to drug use

#22

Post by electromagnetic »

brador wrote: post #18
buff-a wrote: post #7

FTA:It's not clear why people with high childhood IQs are more likely to use illegal drugs. "We suspect they may be more open to new experiences and are more sensation seeking," says White. The articles shy away from the elephant in the room which is that the UK and US gvts have a massive legal and propaganda effort to prevent drug use. Indeed the idea that only stupid people do drugs is part of this propaganda. So m…

How about High IQ = more stressful employment = more recreational drug use? I'd be interested in an addition of an "average alcohol consumption" variable to this dataset.

I think there's potentially lots of reasons why a high IQ would lead to drug/alcohol use.

Stress for me is a killer, by Friday night if I've had a hard week I'm either wishing I still had a pot dealer or I'm hitting up the liquor store for some whiskey.

Similarly high IQ is linked to depression, again likely for a mix of reasons from social isolation (aka being smarter than everyone) and having a greater ability for introspection into ones life (aka I could have done more with my life, etc.). Depression is often a major factor in alcoholism and drug abuse.

The question I wonder is does a high IQ predetermine what drugs a person is going to use. Smart people I've noticed seem to target pot and hallucinogenics. It always seems to be the idiots and suggestibles that end up with the heroin addiction.

Re: High IQ linked to drug use

#23

Post by mannicken »

electromagnetic wrote: post #22
brador wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about High IQ = more stressful employment = more recreational drug use? I'd be interested in an addition of an "average alcohol consumption" variable to this dataset.

I think there's potentially lots of reasons why a high IQ would lead to drug/alcohol use. Stress for me is a killer, by Friday night if I've had a hard week I'm either wishing I still had a pot dealer or I'm hitting up the liquor store for some whiskey. Similarly high IQ is linked to depression, again likely for a mix of reasons from social isolation (aka being smarter than everyone) and having a greater ability for…

"It always seems to be the idiots and suggestibles that end up with the heroin addiction."

Really? You mean like, W.S. Burroughs, Kurt Cobain, Patrick Kroupa, Edgar Allen Poe (although he used opium), Janis Joplin, Jimi Hendrix, John Belushi, Jim Morrison, and a lot of other people who like to keep their addictions hidden least they be stigmatized as junkies?

I know it's so tempting to just classify a certain class of people as undesirables based on what drugs they prefer or what their skin color is, but that's not smart.

Re: High IQ linked to drug use

#24

Post by mgkimsal »

bad_user wrote: post #21
porfirio wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"IQ is also correlated with revenue (probably because that's what it actually measures: socio-economic class)" False. Charles Murray compared brothers of the same household of different intelligence levels, and found significant disparities in income. http://www.eugenics.net/papers/murray.html (article originally appeared in The Telegraph) It's more accurate to say socioeconomic class measures IQ, rather than the oth…

they ultimately don't believe IQ is highly heritable, which it is I don't think anybody sane questions that, but what people are saying and that studies so far have confirmed ... 1) small variations in IQ tests don't matter, like for example the difference between 120 and 140 being negligible and depends a lot on external factors, like rest, vitamins in your blood-stream and mood ... give a person several IQ tests ov…

"give a person several IQ tests over a period of time and he'll score differently every single time"

Not sure what you mean by several. I took 4 (5?) over a 30 year period, and the results were all within a couple percentage points of each other.

Re: High IQ linked to drug use

#25

Post by bad_user »

mgkimsal wrote: post #24
bad_user wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they ultimately don't believe IQ is highly heritable, which it is I don't think anybody sane questions that, but what people are saying and that studies so far have confirmed ... 1) small variations in IQ tests don't matter, like for example the difference between 120 and 140 being negligible and depends a lot on external factors, like rest, vitamins in your blood-stream and mood ... give a person several IQ tests ov…

"give a person several IQ tests over a period of time and he'll score differently every single time" Not sure what you mean by several. I took 4 (5?) over a 30 year period, and the results were all within a couple percentage points of each other.

I took the same number of tests (4) over a period of 7 years and the minimum I got was 119, while the maximum was 140. Clearly this has some significance, as over 100 you're definitely at least average, over 130 you're definitely gifted, while below 80 you're definitely challenged.

However, my point was that small variations are not significant. Also, the correlation between IQ scores and intelligence in general is highly debatable - and that's what people are arguing about.

Re: High IQ linked to drug use

#27

Post by hessenwolf »

mannicken wrote: post #23
electromagnetic wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's potentially lots of reasons why a high IQ would lead to drug/alcohol use. Stress for me is a killer, by Friday night if I've had a hard week I'm either wishing I still had a pot dealer or I'm hitting up the liquor store for some whiskey. Similarly high IQ is linked to depression, again likely for a mix of reasons from social isolation (aka being smarter than everyone) and having a greater ability for…

"It always seems to be the idiots and suggestibles that end up with the heroin addiction." Really? You mean like, W.S. Burroughs, Kurt Cobain, Patrick Kroupa, Edgar Allen Poe (although he used opium), Janis Joplin, Jimi Hendrix, John Belushi, Jim Morrison, and a lot of other people who like to keep their addictions hidden least they be stigmatized as junkies? I know it's so tempting to just classify a certain class o…

Couldn't agree more. Having spent some time living near a lot of junkies, it seems the people that got addicted to heroin were the people who tried heroin. You could hardly say they were idiots to try heroin - the pushers are fairly good marketers, get somebody fucked drunk, give them some cocaine and ectasy, and then a hot girl convinces them to try it, and they have a (brief) lifetime customer.

Re: High IQ linked to drug use

#28

Post by jonnathanson »

porfirio wrote: post #10
bambax wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How about alcohol? From the article: > The lead researcher says he isn't surprised by the findings. "Previous research found for the most part people with high IQs lead a healthy life, but that they are more likely to drink to excess as adults," says James White a psychologist at Cardiff University in the United Kingdom. What the article doesn't explore is the fact that drugs are expensive; isn't it possible that d…

"IQ is also correlated with revenue (probably because that's what it actually measures: socio-economic class)" False. Charles Murray compared brothers of the same household of different intelligence levels, and found significant disparities in income. http://www.eugenics.net/papers/murray.html (article originally appeared in The Telegraph) It's more accurate to say socioeconomic class measures IQ, rather than the oth…

IQ is heritable, but the catch is that it may, in fact, only be heritable through the mother's half of the genes contributed to the child [1]. The jury is still out on this possibility, but it's being seriously considered in studies right now.

So all those uber-rich guys who select stereotypically dumb, hot trophy wives are doing their offspring no favors in this department. (On the flipside, they may be doing their offspring plenty of favors w/r/t looks, and countless studies have shown that looks are also highly correlated with professional success).

Finally, IQ is, for lack of a better word, malleable. It's not locked in at birth. It can be trained, and it can also wither on the vine if not properly used and challenged. And it's highly susceptible to environment: types of attention received as a child, education, socialization, and even environmental pollutants all play a big role. And they continue to play a big role throughout life, up until roughly the mid-20s, when the brain stops undergoing its rapid changes and loses a lot of its plasticity (though not all of it).

[1] This is something I think science should call the "Lisa Simpson Effect," inasmuch as it explains how a dolt like Homer and a smartie like Marge could produce a genius child.

Re: High IQ linked to drug use

#29

Post by Retric »

bad_user wrote: post #25
mgkimsal wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"give a person several IQ tests over a period of time and he'll score differently every single time" Not sure what you mean by several. I took 4 (5?) over a 30 year period, and the results were all within a couple percentage points of each other.

I took the same number of tests (4) over a period of 7 years and the minimum I got was 119, while the maximum was 140. Clearly this has some significance, as over 100 you're definitely at least average, over 130 you're definitely gifted, while below 80 you're definitely challenged. However, my point was that small variations are not significant. Also, the correlation between IQ scores and intelligence in general is h…

Not all IQ tests use the same scoring system. Some use S.D. of 16 others S.D 15 etc.

http://www.paulcooijmans.com/intelligence/sd15.html

Re: High IQ linked to drug use

#30

Post by mgkimsal »

bad_user wrote: post #25
mgkimsal wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"give a person several IQ tests over a period of time and he'll score differently every single time" Not sure what you mean by several. I took 4 (5?) over a 30 year period, and the results were all within a couple percentage points of each other.

I took the same number of tests (4) over a period of 7 years and the minimum I got was 119, while the maximum was 140. Clearly this has some significance, as over 100 you're definitely at least average, over 130 you're definitely gifted, while below 80 you're definitely challenged. However, my point was that small variations are not significant. Also, the correlation between IQ scores and intelligence in general is h…

Interesting. My variation wasn't that marked. Some of the tests were different, so their scales may have been slightly different (IIRC). On at least one I remember I had when I was umm... 5(?) or 6? then again in mid 20s then again in late 30s - all were within 5 points of each other. I can't remember if it was stanford-binet or something else though. Hrm... no... I think earlier tests were stanford-binet, later were wisc and wj. To that end, the scoring models would have been different on the ones when I was a kid, and I know there's some issues between child scores vs adult scores - not necessarily directly comparable.
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