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Linux 5.19

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Re: Linux 5.19

#21

Post by nicoburns »

Somewhat surprisingly, Linux support for Apple Silicon MacBooks seems to be shaping up to be better than that for pretty much any other laptop. The Asahi team don’t have support for everything yet (notably no GPU) but what they do have support for seems to be high quality, well integrated with Linux’s conventions, and upstreamed into the mainline kernel! How much other hardware can claim that?

The Asahi developers have also stated that Apple tends to keep hardware peripheral interfaces stable across generations (they speculate that this is to keep things easy for their own OS dev teams), and that this has so far proven to be true for M2 (and several iPhone generations before that), and thus once support is available , it should stay relevant for some time.

Given this, it seems like MacBooks could easily end up becoming the laptop of choice for Linux developers in the years to come.

Re: Linux 5.19

#22

Post by Hamuko »

hnlmorg wrote: post #20
dncornholio wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple keyboards are the same as Windows, they just have different labels. The ALT key is called "option". CTRL is "control" and the windows key is "command".

Lots more different than that: + Windows has the Windows key (which Linux called "super") + Windows also has the context menu key, which I think it pretty useless to be honest but others might get value from that + The Mac keyboard layout is US-like, even on European models. Which means a bunch of keys are in different places from their European IBM counterparts (like @ and "). The # and / keys I find particularly ha…

>The Mac keyboard layout is US-like, even on European models. Which means a bunch of keys are in different places from their European IBM counterparts (like @ and ").

I just checked three external Apple keyboards, one integrated Apple Keyboard and a Logitech G15, and as far as I can tell, all of them have the @ and " in the same places.

Re: Linux 5.19

#23

Post by nicce »

moonbas3 wrote: post #17
OJFord wrote: post #14

> I'll likely call [the next release] 6.0 since I'm starting to worry about getting confused by big numbers again. I'm not sure whether to read this as a joke, or if there's really no semantic difference between x & y version numbers for the Linux kernel? [Edit: that was a sincere question, not 'what a joke', I didn't mean anything against it.] If I hadn't seen that I'd have been very cautious, a bit worried even, ab…

The first number being changed doesn't mean anything in particular, it's just like another release. Check the release post for 5.0: https://lkml.org/lkml/2019/3/3/236

So we can conclude, that the the big star of open source is not enforcing the child of open source :(

Ref SemVer: https://semver.org/

Re: Linux 5.19

#24

Post by hnlmorg »

Hamuko wrote: post #22
hnlmorg wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots more different than that: + Windows has the Windows key (which Linux called "super") + Windows also has the context menu key, which I think it pretty useless to be honest but others might get value from that + The Mac keyboard layout is US-like, even on European models. Which means a bunch of keys are in different places from their European IBM counterparts (like @ and "). The # and / keys I find particularly ha…

> The Mac keyboard layout is US-like, even on European models. Which means a bunch of keys are in different places from their European IBM counterparts (like @ and "). I just checked three external Apple keyboards, one integrated Apple Keyboard and a Logitech G15, and as far as I can tell, all of them have the @ and " in the same places.

They do differ on the UK keyboards (examples below). Other keyboards for other European languages will differ in different ways (differ both from the UK layout and also from the US layout).

UK Mac keyboard: https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/product/MMMR3B/A/magic-keyboar...

A random UK "IBM" keyboard: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ultra-Classic-style-keyboard-Black/...

Re: Linux 5.19

#25

Post by DJeuxg »

nicoburns wrote: post #21

Somewhat surprisingly, Linux support for Apple Silicon MacBooks seems to be shaping up to be better than that for pretty much any other laptop. The Asahi team don’t have support for everything yet (notably no GPU) but what they do have support for seems to be high quality, well integrated with Linux’s conventions, and upstreamed into the mainline kernel! How much other hardware can claim that? The Asahi developers ha…

> How much other hardware can claim that?

You mean aside from system76 or of any of the other Linux first hardware sellers?

> The Asahi developers have also stated that Apple tends to keep hardware peripheral interfaces stable across generations

The Asahi team has made an assumption about apples implementation of mobile chipsets that hasn't had a Linux competitor working to exploit it.

Nothing is stopping apple from rug pulling the project next cycle.

Nobody should be relying on this.

Re: Linux 5.19

#26

Post by mhh__ »

nicoburns wrote: post #21

Somewhat surprisingly, Linux support for Apple Silicon MacBooks seems to be shaping up to be better than that for pretty much any other laptop. The Asahi team don’t have support for everything yet (notably no GPU) but what they do have support for seems to be high quality, well integrated with Linux’s conventions, and upstreamed into the mainline kernel! How much other hardware can claim that? The Asahi developers ha…

Emphasis on MacBook Vs laptops (plural)

Re: Linux 5.19

#27

Post by throwntoday »

MichaelRazum wrote: post #5

Anyone using it fulltime? Just curious how the simple things work for you. The biggest question for me would be the keyboard, since linux seems to be much more windows like. PS: Im on a p1 gen4 thinkapd very happy with it, BUT it is sometimes really noisy..

Not using full-time but have a partition for it. I went no DE on my install, figured I'd hold off until we got GPU support. I'm on an M1 Pro and all the essential hardware works so it's fine for my purposes (C++ development).

Re: Linux 5.19

#28

Post by ngcc_hk »

“ On a personal note, the most interesting part here is that I did the release (and am writing this) on an arm64 laptop.”

Some comments seems not on this. It seems to a mac arm notebook he tried to use not in a big way. But will be for travelling.

For the release itself tbh I am confused his last merge window (*) comment. Is it 6.1 or not I am not sure? ( should it be odd number if it replaces 5.x9?or it 6.0 as it is after 5.x9)

Re: Linux 5.19

#29

Post by ogogmad »

nicoburns wrote: post #21

Somewhat surprisingly, Linux support for Apple Silicon MacBooks seems to be shaping up to be better than that for pretty much any other laptop. The Asahi team don’t have support for everything yet (notably no GPU) but what they do have support for seems to be high quality, well integrated with Linux’s conventions, and upstreamed into the mainline kernel! How much other hardware can claim that? The Asahi developers ha…

> Given this, it seems like MacBooks could easily end up becoming the laptop of choice for Linux developers in the years to come.

What's the situation with traditional USB and HDMI ports? Dongles are easy to forget and easy to break, and lots of us have traditional USB devices lying around and 10-year-old TVs.

Re: Linux 5.19

#30

Post by pasc1878 »

hnlmorg wrote: post #20
dncornholio wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple keyboards are the same as Windows, they just have different labels. The ALT key is called "option". CTRL is "control" and the windows key is "command".

Lots more different than that: + Windows has the Windows key (which Linux called "super") + Windows also has the context menu key, which I think it pretty useless to be honest but others might get value from that + The Mac keyboard layout is US-like, even on European models. Which means a bunch of keys are in different places from their European IBM counterparts (like @ and "). The # and / keys I find particularly ha…

Much of that is not the keyboard but the OS So running Linux on an Apple keyboard will not have the last two issues.

As for # in macOSdon't use a UK layout use Irish or Australian which are the same except for shift-3

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