The House has passed the economic bailout bill 263 to 171 • Hacker News Board

Re: The House has passed the economic bailout bill 263 to 171

#21

Post by mechanical_fish » Fri, Oct 03, 2008, 6:38 PM UTC

kqr2 wrote: post #9

What's the main difference between this bill and the one that was rejected last week? Is it just the pork offerings including a tax credit for racetrack owners and makers of wooden toy arrows?

Last week it was presumed that the bill would pass. So there wasn't a big incentive for every credit-starved business and bank to spend time calling congresspeople and lobbying for it, or for something like it.

That changed over the last week, as articles like this one came out:

http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/stories/2008/09/29/dai...

So there's been another week to form the consensus: The bill sucks, but the problem is real, and there's no clearly differentiated, politically viable, non-sucky alternative that will arrive in time.

The moral of this story, as with so many stories, is that the right way to deal with dire emergencies is to avoid causing them in the first place.

Re: The House has passed the economic bailout bill 263 to 171

#22

Post by biohacker42 » Fri, Oct 03, 2008, 6:46 PM UTC

My $0.02

The Good:

A non trivial part of the market freeze was due to the uncertainty about the bailout. Will it pass and if so at exactly what price will the Feds buy the toxic junk. Rather then sell, people were waiting. Perhaps now things can start moving again.

So this may be better then doing nothing.

The Bad:

The may be worse then doing nothing. We may spend a whole lot of money and not make a profit on it. Steal (by inflation) from all the people who save, to give to the bankers, and the bankers could still fail.

Many experts argue a better alternative would have been to pick a few winners re-capitalize them and then let everyone else fail. The core issue here is solvency not liquidity, the bailout addresses liquidity, which many consider just a symptom, not the disease.

More may have to be done, like re-capitalization, yet more may not be done because while this time there are no pitch forks in DC, there may well be next time. And thus, this could be worse the doing nothing.

'Ain't economics fun.

Re: The House has passed the economic bailout bill 263 to 171

#23

Post by jcromartie » Fri, Oct 03, 2008, 6:51 PM UTC

If I may paraphrase a Redditor...

    "So is this good or bad for the economy?
    
    Bubble: bigger
    Collapse: inevitable
    Distance to fall: farther
    Dollar: worthless"

Re: The House has passed the economic bailout bill 263 to 171

#24

Post by rgr » Fri, Oct 03, 2008, 6:53 PM UTC

And I thought the democrats were the good guys... Now I really don't know whom to vote for. Wall St will get rich, but the political system has gone bankrupt.

Re: The House has passed the economic bailout bill 263 to 171

#25

Post by jobeirne » Fri, Oct 03, 2008, 6:57 PM UTC

I signed the wrong social contract.

(but it's not like anywhere else is preferable)

Re: The House has passed the economic bailout bill 263 to 171

#26

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Oct 03, 2008, 6:57 PM UTC

kqr2 wrote: post #9

What's the main difference between this bill and the one that was rejected last week? Is it just the pork offerings including a tax credit for racetrack owners and makers of wooden toy arrows?

[deleted]

Re: The House has passed the economic bailout bill 263 to 171

#27

Post by DanielBMarkham » Fri, Oct 03, 2008, 6:59 PM UTC

jobeirne wrote: post #25

I signed the wrong social contract. (but it's not like anywhere else is preferable)

Did you keep your receipt?

Maybe you could take it back and get another one.

Re: The House has passed the economic bailout bill 263 to 171

#28

Post by jd » Fri, Oct 03, 2008, 7:01 PM UTC

kqr2 wrote: post #9

What's the main difference between this bill and the one that was rejected last week? Is it just the pork offerings including a tax credit for racetrack owners and makers of wooden toy arrows?

On the Daily Show, Jon Stewart reported that the main difference was an additional $150 billion in tax breaks.

Re: The House has passed the economic bailout bill 263 to 171

#29

Post by DanielBMarkham » Fri, Oct 03, 2008, 7:02 PM UTC

jws wrote: post #15

kqr2 wrote: post #9

What's the main difference between this bill and the one that was rejected last week? Is it just the pork offerings including a tax credit for racetrack owners and makers of wooden toy arrows?

The arrow thing is popular with pork pokers, but what it is doing is correcting an accidentally applied tax. In 2004 there was a small $0.39 excise tax levied on weapons. Unfortunately, $0.30 target arrows are considered weapons under the law so they got a 130% tax accidentally levied on them. Any politician or journalist that grouses about arrow makers getting special handouts is either uninformed or attempting to d…

It may be correcting an accidentally applied tax, but do you _really_ want to start talking about how the tax code is broken. I mean gee, that conversation could go on for a long time.

They are not attempting to deceive anybody. The issue is the bank bailout, not arrows, not AMT, not anything else stuck in there to sweeten the pot. The fact that people are pointing out how much CRAP has to go into a bill to get it passed into law is germane and important to know.

Re: The House has passed the economic bailout bill 263 to 171

#30

Post by babyshake » Fri, Oct 03, 2008, 7:13 PM UTC

socmoth wrote: post #17

jws wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The arrow thing is popular with pork pokers, but what it is doing is correcting an accidentally applied tax. In 2004 there was a small $0.39 excise tax levied on weapons. Unfortunately, $0.30 target arrows are considered weapons under the law so they got a 130% tax accidentally levied on them. Any politician or journalist that grouses about arrow makers getting special handouts is either uninformed or attempting to d…

i wish there were wikipedia style discuss pages for legislation. especially for things like this.

http://publicmarkup.org/bill/emergency-economic-stabilizatio...

thank you, Sunlight Foundation.