The EU has quietly provided Morocco with powerful phone hacking systems [French] • Hacker News Board

Re: The EU has quietly provided Morocco with powerful phone hacking systems [French]

#21

Post by BiteCode_dev » Mon, Jul 25, 2022, 1:03 PM UTC

SnowHill9902 wrote: post #14

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is fair play. I fully expect authorities from any countries to try to get evidences from physical access to electronic devices in the case of criminal investigation. Just like they can go into ones house and open safes with a torch if a judge allows it. The problem is mass surveillance, not getting data about someone under arrest. Of course, I unfortunatly also fully expect them to abuse that and use it outside…

No, the problem is backdoors and misleading information.

That as well.

Apple may state that their enclave is secure, the existance of such tools and the fact they were part of PRISM hints that they are like all others: open to those with a lot of resources.

Re: The EU has quietly provided Morocco with powerful phone hacking systems [French]

#22

Post by GekkePrutser » Mon, Jul 25, 2022, 1:08 PM UTC

jaclaz wrote: post #20

GekkePrutser wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the only African country with a land border to the EU so there's a point. There was a major incident with almost 40 dead at one of these borders only months ago. I also don't like the framing of migrants and drugs in the same sentence as both issues are ethically very different. But both are driven by organized crime groups and the migrants are victims too. The traffickers take them for all they're worth. It's a…

>It's the only African country with a land border to the EU so there's a point. By "land" you mean "only a few miles of sea", I believe. There are three spanish islets (exclaves): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enclave_and_exclave in Morocco, but they don't really count, even if inside Melilla, Ceuta or Peñón de Vélez de la Gomera https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morocco%E2%80%93Spain_border you are on Spanish territory,…

I was talking about the enclaves yes. Why don't they count? They are regular targets for human trafficking and drug activity. Many people have died in trafficker-incited border incidents.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Morocco%E2%80%93Spain_bor...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/26/calls-investig...

I know they can't readily travel to Spain from there but I guess the idea is that they apply for refugee status once they're in. And they are part of the EU.

Re: The EU has quietly provided Morocco with powerful phone hacking systems [French]

#23

Post by jaclaz » Mon, Jul 25, 2022, 1:32 PM UTC

GekkePrutser wrote: post #22

jaclaz wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's the only African country with a land border to the EU so there's a point. By "land" you mean "only a few miles of sea", I believe. There are three spanish islets (exclaves): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enclave_and_exclave in Morocco, but they don't really count, even if inside Melilla, Ceuta or Peñón de Vélez de la Gomera https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morocco%E2%80%93Spain_border you are on Spanish territory,…

I was talking about the enclaves yes. Why don't they count? They are regular targets for human trafficking and drug activity. Many people have died in trafficker-incited border incidents. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Morocco%E2%80%93Spain_bor... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/26/calls-investig... I know they can't readily travel to Spain from there but I guess the idea is that they apply for refugee…

They are physically separated from EU mainland, they are exclaves.

As said once you manage to get inside one of these extra-territories you are technically on Spain teritory, but you have NO access (without a boat) to Spain (or the EU).

As an example, if you manage (from Morocco) to enter one of these you cannot be chased by the Morocco Police (that will stop at the border) and you can - say - ask/apply for asylum, but if this is denied the Spanish Police will bring you back to the border and put you in the hands of the Morocco border police.

And it is not like any "mainland" border that you can escape anywhere, these territories are tiny and you have no ways to go other than sea or Morocco.

Same goes for drugs, congratulations, you managed to bring some hashish in Melilla, if you manage to sell it there, good, otherwise you won't be able (easily) to bring it to Spain.

Most of the "drug activity" is on the beaches of Spain, around La Linea, Campo de Gibraltar and Algeciras:

https://estaticos-cdn.prensaiberica.es/epc/resourcescas/info...

speedboats leave the coasts of Morocco and quickly unload the drugs on the beaches, then they are loaded on cars and distributed in Spain.

The rest is attempts to smuggle drugs (and tobacco/cigarettes) hidden inside trucks or cars boarded onto regular ferries.

Re: The EU has quietly provided Morocco with powerful phone hacking systems [French]

#24

Post by GekkePrutser » Mon, Jul 25, 2022, 1:44 PM UTC

jaclaz wrote: post #23

GekkePrutser wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was talking about the enclaves yes. Why don't they count? They are regular targets for human trafficking and drug activity. Many people have died in trafficker-incited border incidents. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Morocco%E2%80%93Spain_bor... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/26/calls-investig... I know they can't readily travel to Spain from there but I guess the idea is that they apply for refugee…

They are physically separated from EU mainland, they are ex claves. As said once you manage to get inside one of these extra-territories you are technically on Spain teritory, but you have NO access (without a boat) to Spain (or the EU). As an example, if you manage (from Morocco) to enter one of these you cannot be chased by the Morocco Police (that will stop at the border) and you can - say - ask/apply for asylum,…

I know it's not so useful to be there but technically it is a land border between Africa and the EU. And clearly it still attracts a lot of organised crime. Which warrants this collaboration with Morocco, which was what the discussion started with. I only wanted to say that it makes sense for Spanish/EU authorities (who do control these exclaves) to collaborate with Moroccan police. Much more than any other country.

I don't really understand why Spain insists on keeping them. They're more trouble than they're worth IMO. Also, it's just a little bit hypocritical of Spain to want Gibraltar back from the UK but wanting to keep these areas in Morocco.

Personally I think both should be done, Ceuta/Melilla to Morocco and Gibraltar to Spain.

Re: The EU has quietly provided Morocco with powerful phone hacking systems [French]

#25

Post by Kukumber » Mon, Jul 25, 2022, 2:13 PM UTC

kabylehabyle wrote: post #10

Kukumber wrote: post #6

I'm not surprised, morocco is a source of migrants and drug problems, this cooperation to strengthen security at EU's border makes sense

> source of migrants and drug problems Wow. Sounds like someone is on an agenda.

I don't have any agenda, but i see the problem, i made a mistake, i said Morocco instead of "at the borders"

I apologies for the mistake, i can't edit the comment anymore unfortunately