No, definitely not. I don't do anything personal on work hardware, either. Including social media, etc.
Programmers. Do you work on your personal projects inside your 9-5?
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Re: Programmers. Do you work on your personal projects inside your 9-5?
#22anyone who works on their personal side projects on company's times and hardware, risk that the results will become ownership of the company. it's also a bit dishonest and immoral tbh... I would check the employment contract asap.
There's absolutely nothing immoral about practicing your craft outside of "work hours." It wouldn't be ethical to drive into the company office, then work on your side gigs using their computers, bandwidth, software, etc. There's nothing unethical about working on personal projects while not at work. In a lot of US states, an employer can't legally stop you either, salaried or not, unless they can make the case that…
I agree with you, but my interpretation of the comment you're replying to is that they're saying working on personal projects _within_ work hours, "on company's times and hardware", is "immoral". They didn't say anything about working on personal projects outside of work.
Re: Programmers. Do you work on your personal projects inside your 9-5?
#23No, besides the obvious moral dilemma, potential legal issues...
Task switching sucks and I imagine it'd be somewhat stressful to feel like "you're gonna get caught out".
Best to keep the two separate unless you're like one of the guys sitting on the rooftop in the Silicon Valley TV show
Re: Programmers. Do you work on your personal projects inside your 9-5?
#24Earlier quoted context omitted.
interesting... here in Europe it always states how many hours employee needs to work daily, how many days per week and often times includes clauses for how much overtime hours and overtime pay is to be expected
Yeah if you interview in the US for a tech job typically they will tell you that they have "occasional" overtime. I've seen occasional range from a couple times a week to a couple times a year, always unpaid. You are being paid for filling a role, not a specific set of hours. People talk about how "my boss doesn't care so long as I get the work done" as a benefit but it's actually how the salary arrangement is suppos…
how does one measure how much work can employer extract from employee if position is 'filling a role' as opposed to having an agreement for amount of hours per day?
Re: Programmers. Do you work on your personal projects inside your 9-5?
#25From an ethical perspective, almost all of these comments are insane. Of course you do. All the senior level execs, founders, consultants, bankers etc are networking hard, discussing ideas, doing research, pitching each other, running side businesses, taking board seats, forming and investing in new businesses ALL the time. It is expected and a totally natural extension of the way they work.
Now, obviously you wouldn't use company resources. Be smart and have separate devices, etc. But unless you are paid hourly I would really discount the idea that you are somehow cheating your company. Why should the rules be "for thee but not for me..."?
Re: Programmers. Do you work on your personal projects inside your 9-5?
#26Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah if you interview in the US for a tech job typically they will tell you that they have "occasional" overtime. I've seen occasional range from a couple times a week to a couple times a year, always unpaid. You are being paid for filling a role, not a specific set of hours. People talk about how "my boss doesn't care so long as I get the work done" as a benefit but it's actually how the salary arrangement is suppos…
how does one measure how much work can employer extract from employee if position is 'filling a role' as opposed to having an agreement for amount of hours per day?
The minimum wage always applies, so you'd have to pay at least [168 * $7.25] $1218 per week if you wanted someone to work 24/7 365. Had the minimum wage kept up with inflation that would've been somewhat of a limiting factor. The primary limiting factor is "at will employment", that is a doctrine where you do not owe your employer any notice when you wish to leave your job. So if they tell you "Work 100 hours a week" you can tell them "no" and leave without legal consequences. In practice there is a informal understanding that you will provide a employer with two weeks notice when you leave, and they will often give you a poor professional reference if you do not oblige them.
Another wrinkle is most workers aren't really aware of the legalities of salaried work, you'll see people making statements like the OP here about "company time" for example. Originally the arrangement was designed for people like CEOs and executives of companies where it wouldn't make sense to track hours as they had a stake in the company, but it has been expanded mostly to side step things like mandatory overtime pay.
Re: Programmers. Do you work on your personal projects inside your 9-5?
#27No to personal projects during the day. There is no time.
Re: Programmers. Do you work on your personal projects inside your 9-5?
#28I write during my lunch hour on a separate computer/physical journal while eating.
In previous jobs I would "skill up" during every free moment like lunch, afternoon slump, extra time after completing something hard that day, etc while ensuring my job duties exceeded expectations. Sometimes I would build personal projects for my work that mimicked what I was doing outside of work so I could build the skill up and provide value at the same time.
I typically look at any moonlighting rules for the company I work for and then keep those limitations in mind. Most are pretty lenient to say "don't use our resources and don't work on your stuff during our hours".
Re: Programmers. Do you work on your personal projects inside your 9-5?
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's absolutely nothing immoral about practicing your craft outside of "work hours." It wouldn't be ethical to drive into the company office, then work on your side gigs using their computers, bandwidth, software, etc. There's nothing unethical about working on personal projects while not at work. In a lot of US states, an employer can't legally stop you either, salaried or not, unless they can make the case that…
I agree with you, but my interpretation of the comment you're replying to is that they're saying working on personal projects _within_ work hours, "on company's times and hardware", is "immoral". They didn't say anything about working on personal projects outside of work.
I like your interpretation better than mine, though I'm not sure it changes too much of what I said.
That's in part because what I consider to be "immoral" is likely different than the OP. I could be an anarchist that believes the only moral act is to undermine my employer. Or I could be so dedicated to my employer that I'd consider merely thinking negative thoughts about them immoral.
In the end, it's not about what's "immoral", it's about what's legal. Which, of course, depends on where you live and how smart your lawyers are.