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What happened to "asking for help"?

alwinhoogerdijk.com

21–30 of 52 posts

Re: What happened to "asking for help"?

#21
There is a big gap between a two way medium like Twitter and something like the frustratingly one way App Store reviews.

I think HN is mostly familiar (and admiring of) Zappos and their awesome customer service. Twitter is bar none the easiest, cheapest way to get positive public customer support stories.

Most twitter users have a handful (less than a 100) people they regularly interact with and are kind of amazed that a company would take the time to message them directly about an issue they were having.

From there it is usually easy to get a dialog going and when their issue is fixed they aren't just satisfied but ecstatic about your company and product (typically they go back on Twitter and talk you up to their friends).

Re: What happened to "asking for help"?

#23
post #16

We just had this problem. Someone posted a 1-star review on the App Store saying: > I create puzzles under the username: [---]. The editor is designed to allow you to upload an increasing number of puzzles as a reward for earning high ratings on those puzzles you've created so far. However, if the rating drops, the puzzles you can upload may actually drop. This is lame and unfair. Numerous times I've trashed a puzzle…

I, on a few occasions, have went the nice route by firing off an email (or phone call) about problem and have it deleted or a form letter sent back. In essence, my problem was ignored. In that case, I went on Google and linked my name to a nasty complaint. Lo and behold, they called or emailed back and solved it if I removed the negative feedback. Time and time again, if I complain publicly and become a cost sinkhole…

I understand that, and it's happened to me a few times also.

But I still feel like the first response, if it's possible, should be an email. We're just a couple of guys, and both our website and our game's credits make it clear that we're not a major faceless company.

I suppose people are conditioned by large companies ignoring them, so I hope that the proliferation of indie developers in the App Store can recondition people to actually send emails.

We love getting direct email from people, and we respond to every single one. I think people are sometimes surprised to get a personal reply; hopefully that won't be such a surprise if enough developers do it.

Re: What happened to "asking for help"?

#24
Instead of blaming your users (terrible idea), improve your app so that it is clear to the user what they should/can do if they experience problems, e.g. a Help function, link to an online forum or your email, etc. Ideally this would pop up whenever they get an error.

Re: What happened to "asking for help"?

#25

I see the same thing even from my close colleagues. With one in particular, the first I'll even know he's using my code is when he bitches about it on Twitter. Forget about usable information in a bug report about what he did to trigger it (usually turns out to be utterly insane hacked configs), sometimes we've been talking on IRC and then I switch windows to find he's slagging the code on Twitter. I think it's a cul…

[deleted]

Re: What happened to "asking for help"?

#26

The problem is the normal response to their questions. Most companies, or even just people, will respond negatively to bug reports, especially if they aren't good reports. This has trained the users that they shouldn't bother asking. Instead, they do what gets them results: They complain publicly. See, you can't ignore them if they're speaking publicly. Everyone else gets to see the problem and response, or lack ther…

If you didn't bother to ask for help, how do you know they wouldn't have helped? I bought a book from No Starch Press, and I hated it. (Possibly due to my own fault.) I wrote to them to complain, and they refunded my money and told me to throw away the book.

Past experience tells you what percentage of businesses will help, and what percentage will waste your time and money.

That has almost always tilted into the 'better off not trying' category. I end up with more of my time, and happier, if I don't go through the official channels. On average.

That's what companies have trained customers into.

Re: What happened to "asking for help"?

#27
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I, on a few occasions, have went the nice route by firing off an email (or phone call) about problem and have it deleted or a form letter sent back. In essence, my problem was ignored. In that case, I went on Google and linked my name to a nasty complaint. Lo and behold, they called or emailed back and solved it if I removed the negative feedback. Time and time again, if I complain publicly and become a cost sinkhole…

I understand that, and it's happened to me a few times also. But I still feel like the first response, if it's possible, should be an email. We're just a couple of guys, and both our website and our game's credits make it clear that we're not a major faceless company. I suppose people are conditioned by large companies ignoring them, so I hope that the proliferation of indie developers in the App Store can reconditio…

For your company, that may be the right way to go. But people don't know that.

All they know is that 90% of the time, their time and money is wasted if they go that route. So they take the shortcut. Once you have a good rep with a customer, you can bet they'll do it your way, because that then becomes the best way for them. The problem is that you have to get a rep with that customer first. That usually happens by having a problem, which is the problem in the first place.

Why did this guy think that this was the best communication medium? Do you have forums where you regularly engage your users and answer their questions? Do they know they exist? He sounds like a creative user, and most creative users visit the forums to share and learn tips and tricks.

Re: What happened to "asking for help"?

#28
This is in no way a software issue, this is a social issue. Everywhere people are complaining about everything that doesn't work exactly according to their wishes. Not seldom in order to gain something themselves, such as threating hotels with bad reviews if they don't get a discount..

Then again, when a customer complaints about a bug, this (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3208990) is probably not a good way to keep them from going public.

Re: What happened to "asking for help"?

#29
Funny the article never addresses "they don't ask for help because either there's nobody to talk to or nobody who isn't reading from an inapplicable script." After that becomes the dominant customer support experience, seems the only solution is fling bad vibes into the ether[net] and buy a different product.

You know the drill. My obligatory anecdote: bought a popular notebook from a big name computer company. Called tech support for the same problem six times. Five times was connected to someone who ran me through a pointless drill and refused to vary from the script, culminating in sending the machine in for replacement of random parts, which each time worked briefly then the device died again. The sixth time someone more conversant was willing to LISTEN to me, understood my job is designing such things, went off script, and informed me he was not allowed to tell me that complete exploded mechanical drawings were available online at http://www.bigcompco.com/foobar/product_X_disassembly.pdf ... I expressed my happy dismay that he couldn't tell me what he told me, hung up, took the machine apart (now knowing the secret sequencing), and proceeded to vacuum out the clogged heat sink which somehow nobody in the repair department managed to notice FIVE TIMES. Worked fine ever since.

Anecdote 2, short version: called MegaSoftware Corp about a non-booting OS. Was told to delete all 2GB of somebody else's data (a huge amount at the time) and reinstall everything - and was told this for $29. Unwilling to, 20 minutes later figured out copying one file solved the problem. Credit charges were soon reversed.

Upshot: we're now conditioned to assume there's nobody (or nobody competent) to talk to. The only hope to get attention is to leave scathing feedback and assume nobody will notice anyway. Quite a surprise when competent willing support appears.

Re: What happened to "asking for help"?

#30
I think one of the problems may be that people dealing with AppStore or Android Market customers are not realizing that they are dealing with a different kind of user group. One cannot compare the feedback that HN users (developers/advanced-users/early-adopters) give, with the responses from your average iPhone user. He doesn't understand how complex a piece of software may be. There is probably an expectation that even a free app should work perfectly well.

Additionally the abundance of similar apps means that there is no real interest in "asking for help"; the user can just try the next app. Still, before doing that he will post his comment for the benefit of future users (this app is (terrible|bad|doesnt-work|...).

Finally the feedback channels may not be as easy to find as for traditional software. I am not sure where I would send feedback about some indie-app that doesn't even have a homepage (or that may be ranked on page 20 on Google).

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