Tell HN: Internet Archive is facing a Big 4 Publishers lawsuit • Hacker News Board

Re: Tell HN: Internet Archive is facing a Big 4 Publishers lawsuit

#21

Post by Rebelgecko » Mon, Jul 18, 2022, 6:42 PM UTC

This is pretty much why I stopped donating to them, not like they'll miss the sporadic $50 they'd get from me. Getting sued is a pretty obvious result of their decision to ignore copyright laws.

If they didn't realize that they'd be sued then they're hopelessly shortsighted (there's no "emergency" exemption to copyright laws, even if you can make the argument that morally there should be). If they did know that they'd be sued, the message they're projecting is that they have enough leftover money to burn that they can branch out from their core competencies and try their hand at legal activism.

Re: Tell HN: Internet Archive is facing a Big 4 Publishers lawsuit

#22

Post by lwswl » Mon, Jul 18, 2022, 6:42 PM UTC

I believe there are certain large corporations(far larger then Harper Collins et al.) which would benefit from an enlarging of the domain of fair use around now.

Those pockets are large, and the display of the dollar does more to sway Judges than any real interpretation of the law.

It is safe to say that they will succeed in their (seemingly useless) endeavor.

Re: Tell HN: Internet Archive is facing a Big 4 Publishers lawsuit

#23

Post by antiverse » Mon, Jul 18, 2022, 6:43 PM UTC

It's disappointing to hear, with the number of people here claiming how IA has run afoul of the copyright law, that it's an open-and-shut case and there is nothing more to discuss. I feel like the air of the hacker spirit on the website is greatly diminished when we take an ice-cold approach to a difficult problem like this.

I for one commend them for doing a noble thing in a very turbulent time. We didn't know how the pandemic was going to play out early on in 2020 and they went ahead to help out in any way they could. Perhaps the US Federal Government will give them some kind of an exemption (if such a thing exists). I'm sure they can find a case where their action is justified in the eyes of law.

Re: Tell HN: Internet Archive is facing a Big 4 Publishers lawsuit

#24

Post by hvs » Mon, Jul 18, 2022, 6:43 PM UTC

xwdv wrote: post #16

COGlory wrote: post #6

So...they didn't think the law should apply so they just decided to ignore it? What were they expecting? How can they possibly expect to win this lawsuit? I hate copyright with all my soul but this is just stupid. You can't just decide to take the law into your own hand. This is just a waste of money and effort.

Ask for forgiveness not permission if you want to innovate.

Or be sued into oblivion.

Re: Tell HN: Internet Archive is facing a Big 4 Publishers lawsuit

#25

Post by sebastiansm » Mon, Jul 18, 2022, 6:43 PM UTC

TekMol wrote: post #8

I never understood how the IA can get away with copying all those websites and all their content as if copyright did not exist. Can anybody enlighten me how they have not been sued into oblivion and sit in prison already?

I had listened and downloaded full music albums from the Archive. Don't know why is possible.

Re: Tell HN: Internet Archive is facing a Big 4 Publishers lawsuit

#26

Post by giobox » Mon, Jul 18, 2022, 6:44 PM UTC

metadat wrote: post #15

COGlory wrote: post #6

So...they didn't think the law should apply so they just decided to ignore it? What were they expecting? How can they possibly expect to win this lawsuit? I hate copyright with all my soul but this is just stupid. You can't just decide to take the law into your own hand. This is just a waste of money and effort.

The mission of preserving human culture is far more important than respecting rent-seeking copyright holders. At the end of the day, The Internet Archive has good intentions and is morally in the right. The time has come to consider changing the laws to allow for truly fair use, especially for physical items scanned to digital (e.g. books), old video games, and more. It's about selecting for the common good over the…

Then we should seek to change the law? I completely agree with your sentiments for the most part, but the legal footing of the IA has always been shaky in places.

I know I've taken advantage of getting software from the IA that is still commercially sold on places like gog.com, so while overall I regard the IA to be "morally in the right", there's little doubt to me personally there is a ton of content on there that shouldn't be.

Re: Tell HN: Internet Archive is facing a Big 4 Publishers lawsuit

#27

Post by twblalock » Mon, Jul 18, 2022, 6:44 PM UTC

xwdv wrote: post #16

COGlory wrote: post #6

So...they didn't think the law should apply so they just decided to ignore it? What were they expecting? How can they possibly expect to win this lawsuit? I hate copyright with all my soul but this is just stupid. You can't just decide to take the law into your own hand. This is just a waste of money and effort.

Ask for forgiveness not permission if you want to innovate.

> Ask for forgiveness not permission if you want to innovate.

That only works if you are capable of handling the legal trouble that results.

Re: Tell HN: Internet Archive is facing a Big 4 Publishers lawsuit

#28

Post by Rebelgecko » Mon, Jul 18, 2022, 6:44 PM UTC

wmf wrote: post #11

samwillis wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, they should have reached out to the closed public libraries and come to an agreement where they lent out digital copies 1:1 of copies owned by closed libraries. It would have been an incredible initiative that could have become sustainable well past the pandemic.

they lent out digital copies 1:1 of copies owned by closed libraries That would probably have triggered the same lawsuit. You cannot rent digital copies of physical works no matter how much sense it makes.

IIRC, IA had already been doing that for years. This lawsuit is happening because they stopped limiting digital loans to the number of physical copies IA and their partners had on hand

Re: Tell HN: Internet Archive is facing a Big 4 Publishers lawsuit

#29

Post by daniel_reetz » Mon, Jul 18, 2022, 6:44 PM UTC

capableweb wrote: post #2

I love the Internet Archive and frequently donate to them (2 times so far this year). What I'd love to see improved is the ability to be less "fragile". Currently it's all located in the US and they have a huge focus on the US, both technically and politically. But why not try to replicate it all over the world? There seems to have been some smaller efforts inside the Internet Archive to make it more decentralized, b…

It might not be widely known, but they have in the past had copies of the Archive in Alexandria and other locations. From my brief time there, I know that issues like these are of great concern to the Archive.

Re: Tell HN: Internet Archive is facing a Big 4 Publishers lawsuit

#30

Post by twblalock » Mon, Jul 18, 2022, 6:44 PM UTC

lwswl wrote: post #22

I believe there are certain large corporations(far larger then Harper Collins et al.) which would benefit from an enlarging of the domain of fair use around now. Those pockets are large, and the display of the dollar does more to sway Judges than any real interpretation of the law. It is safe to say that they will succeed in their (seemingly useless) endeavor.

> I believe there are certain large corporations(far larger then Harper Collins et al.) which would benefit from an enlarging of the domain of fair use around now.

Who are those corporations and how would they benefit?