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Scots research finds Atlantic plankton all but wiped out

sundaypost.com

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Re: Scots research finds Atlantic plankton all but wiped out

#21

Post by brutusborn »

alophawen wrote: post #6
mealkh wrote: post #2

I have to say, this is really concerning. I assumed it was bad, but this sounds really REALLY bad. How would we even go about attempting to coordinate a response to this? Strongarming polluting countries into enforcing compliance? Massive economic uplift projects / infrastructure investments for waste treatment and new materials? Ban of products, trying to catch the job loss somehow? I'm at my wit's end.

There is nothing we as individuals can do about it. Global industry pollution should have been internationally controlled decades ago if we would have had any chance of ducking this. Many has screamed about this for years, recently Greta. 2 years of covid pandemic gave the earth some breathing-room but seems in hindsight only to have slowed down the end date by about 6 months, according to recent graphs. The decision…

What do you mean by "end date"?

I'm guessing you mean point of no return, which I've tried to find, to no avail. The closest I've found in the IPCC reports is vague predictions of local ecosystem collapse at 6C warming, predicted next century.

Re: Scots research finds Atlantic plankton all but wiped out

#22

Post by brutusborn »

alophawen wrote: post #7
superchroma wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah so this really took the shine off of my morning too, BUT apparently it's a crappy study without good backing for its claims. Some guy on reddit remarked that the plankton are still clearly visible from space in huge amounts. THAT SAID, we don't need to wait around for this headline except for real before we take action, and countries really need to get their stuff in gear. There's no good reason for plastic to b…

Seriously? You try to discredit a serious article about a subject you should be well aware is 100% true by now even if you were in fact living under a rock.-- by siding with random anon redditor that had a take more suitable for your world view. It is not surprising the least why we are in this rut.

Yes, a lot of people (including myself) like to be skeptical of extreme claims.

Environmentalists making sensational claims from single studies tends to be counterproductive because if they are found to be wrong, they are used as ammo by climate skeptics. If they are right, then they will be backed up by other studies; so it is better to wait until certain before publishing things like "all but gone."

I

Re: Scots research finds Atlantic plankton all but wiped out

#23

Post by catchnear4321 »

alophawen wrote: post #6
mealkh wrote: post #2

I have to say, this is really concerning. I assumed it was bad, but this sounds really REALLY bad. How would we even go about attempting to coordinate a response to this? Strongarming polluting countries into enforcing compliance? Massive economic uplift projects / infrastructure investments for waste treatment and new materials? Ban of products, trying to catch the job loss somehow? I'm at my wit's end.

There is nothing we as individuals can do about it. Global industry pollution should have been internationally controlled decades ago if we would have had any chance of ducking this. Many has screamed about this for years, recently Greta. 2 years of covid pandemic gave the earth some breathing-room but seems in hindsight only to have slowed down the end date by about 6 months, according to recent graphs. The decision…

Now we are fucked? Now?

The people scolding the masses for using plastic bags at the grocery store are still riding in private jets. For media events and fancy dinners. Jaunting around the world in planes fueled by dinosaur juice, financed by human suffering. But this is nothing new. Dinosaur juice just means that no humans are having to row inside the plane. That and physics, but if it weren’t for the physics, Amazon warehouses would look like damn good employment compared to the flying contraptions of the elites.

We have been fucked for a long time. Generations upon generations. The environment is a symptom. This is a systemic issue.

Nothing can be done? Well, you’re dumping a meme on the internet claiming that all is lost. That’s doing something. Harmful. Could spend the same effort to point the finger at those most to blame. Yes, one finger. One finger can open many eyes. Shoot, maybe you hate my idea, find it frivolous, and thought of a better one. Fantastic! I don’t care. Maybe I’m an idiot, but I won’t be offended if you do something more productive. That’s the point. Do anything but roll over.

What if people decided it was about more than the environment of Earth? Do you want this species shitting on Mars next? Earth may burn in a fire but the disease can still spread. We only have one Mars, too. And plans are already being made on how to carve it up.

Or what if the powers that be found eco-friendly ways to drain the livelihood of the rest of humanity, should we celebrate that the planet is saved? At least hell could be lush and vibrant?

Again, the environment is just a symptom. As is your attitude. The real problem is not being addressed. So neither are the symptoms.

“Look at this internet warrior typing angry things.”

Sure, why not. The plankton isn’t dead yet so I might as well.

Re: Scots research finds Atlantic plankton all but wiped out

#24

Post by brutusborn »

fnordpiglet wrote: post #17
AbrahamParangi wrote: post #8

This is absolute garbage. Saying the plankton are gone is incredibly unlikely and requires extraordinary evidence. We can see plankton from space https://eoimages.gsfc.nasa.gov/images/globalmaps/data/MY1DMM... and what we see in no way correlates with “the plankton is all gone”.

You know that image was from 2002 right?

Here's one from 2022: https://modis.gsfc.nasa.gov/gallery/individual.php?db_date=2...

Re: Scots research finds Atlantic plankton all but wiped out

#25

Post by omniglottal »

myshpa wrote: post #15
tehwebguy wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you have a private jet your spending habits can’t possibly make a difference. The only way to make a real change would be to correct the incentives. This can be done via legislation & policy but an individual can’t do it alone. I suppose an individual could change the incentives for one or two companies (e.g. violence against a decision maker) but it wouldn’t change the economics of doing business.

Collective change in spending habits can have the power. We're seeing it with rise of veganism & meat/dairy, those producers are very concerned (pushing against naming plant-based foods milk/burgers etc.). I agree that legislation & policy & subsidies are critical. But this change won't come without support of the public. It seems to me, that if you want to change something, you have to change yourself first. We can'…

A problem is not solved by the many doing what a few successfully undo.

Re: Scots research finds Atlantic plankton all but wiped out

#26

Post by myshpa »

omniglottal wrote: post #25
myshpa wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Collective change in spending habits can have the power. We're seeing it with rise of veganism & meat/dairy, those producers are very concerned (pushing against naming plant-based foods milk/burgers etc.). I agree that legislation & policy & subsidies are critical. But this change won't come without support of the public. It seems to me, that if you want to change something, you have to change yourself first. We can'…

A problem is not solved by the many doing what a few successfully undo.

What would the logical thing to do be then? Do nothing, or remove the few?

Re: Scots research finds Atlantic plankton all but wiped out

#27

Post by carapace »

The actual report is here (I think? It might be a preliminary report?)

It seems the primary message is "CO2 reduction won’t even stop climate change ... we have not fixed the primary root cause – the destruction of nature by toxic chemicals, and substances such as plastic."

https://dx.doi.org/10.2139/ssrn.4099018

> Pollution from the Congo, Gambia and Amazon from municipal waste, agricultural run-off and deforestation has caused an explosion in the growth of pelagic Sargassum seaweed. It is estimated that, each year, 20 million tonnes of this weed are growing in the Atlantic Ocean - that’s more weed than plastic by weight.

> The smell of the ocean comes from coccolithophores, and they are in the air we breathe, our water and our food, but if their numbers are depleted, they will most likely be replaced by toxic dinoflagellates. Already we are seeing HABS, hazardous algae blooms around the world which are killing people living next to the ocean. This is coupled with increased levels of ciguatera disease caused by dinoflagellate contaminated fish. Health authorities are now recommended that any fish from tropical water over 3kg in size should not be consumed

Re: Scots research finds Atlantic plankton all but wiped out

#28

Post by carapace »

brutusborn wrote: post #24
fnordpiglet wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know that image was from 2002 right?

Here's one from 2022: https://modis.gsfc.nasa.gov/gallery/individual.php?db_date=2...

A tiny bloom in Bristol Channel doesn't contradict the findings of the scientists.

Re: Scots research finds Atlantic plankton all but wiped out

#29

Post by ac29 »

carapace wrote: post #28
brutusborn wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's one from 2022: https://modis.gsfc.nasa.gov/gallery/individual.php?db_date=2...

A tiny bloom in Bristol Channel doesn't contradict the findings of the scientists.

The article says "fish, whales and dolphins [will] become extinct" in "a few years". That is an extraordinary claim.

Re: Scots research finds Atlantic plankton all but wiped out

#30

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

superchroma wrote: post #3
mealkh wrote: post #2

I have to say, this is really concerning. I assumed it was bad, but this sounds really REALLY bad. How would we even go about attempting to coordinate a response to this? Strongarming polluting countries into enforcing compliance? Massive economic uplift projects / infrastructure investments for waste treatment and new materials? Ban of products, trying to catch the job loss somehow? I'm at my wit's end.

Yeah so this really took the shine off of my morning too, BUT apparently it's a crappy study without good backing for its claims. Some guy on reddit remarked that the plankton are still clearly visible from space in huge amounts. THAT SAID, we don't need to wait around for this headline except for real before we take action, and countries really need to get their stuff in gear. There's no good reason for plastic to b…

"Some guy on reddit"? That's enough to ignore the warning of a research team that spent "two years collecting water samples from the Atlantic" (per the article above)? Sorry but I don't think so.

For example: how much of the plankton in the Atlanic is visible from space? 1%? 100%? Does "some guy on reddit" have any clue whether it's possible to estimate the quantity of plankton just from satellite images? I honestly don't.

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