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The Social Graph is Neither

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Re: The Social Graph is Neither

#21
post #15
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That depends on your definition of a "plain old graph". If you allow arbitrary numbers of edges between nodes and allow edges to carry data, everything will be ok, right? (...right?)

In math... and we're talking math if we're talking RDF & graphs, right?... "arbitrary" is perilously close to a synonym for "infinite" and "unbounded".

Well, are relationships finite-dimensional?

Re: The Social Graph is Neither

#22
post #7

Social networks aren't really social networks either. If you read Bowling Alone, it should be readily apparent that Facebook et al. fulfill few of the functions of an actual social network.

Exactly. "Social networks" are thingies that aid us with establishing and keeping up with actual social networks. It's a bit like calling a publisher's press a news agency.

In vipassana meditation there is the idea that if you learn to recognize thoughts at the precise moment they arise, then eventually any given thought will basically lose its power and stop arising. Facebook seems to have the same property, but for personality. Every time you post about yourself, you become a little bit more bland and boring of a person.

The way I think of Facebook is rolodex + fax machine + succubus.

Re: The Social Graph is Neither

#23
When you publish content on the internet and it has a relation to your online identity you are just saying: look how awesome I am.

I uploaded a bubble sort in prolog and a b-tree in Haskell ("I'm an enlightened far-reaching hipster hacker").

I quoted Allen Ginsberg on facebook. "Look at me I'm smart and read poetry".

MySpace collapsed and Facebook's clean UI won because most people don't have that much identity.

Re: The Social Graph is Neither

#24

rdf technology is coming on strong in late 2011; the tools are getting better fast -- we will be able to represent the social graph in more detail, and correlate it with the 'semantic graph' that shared human experience is coded in. yes, RDF has taken a while to mature, but look at the time lag between Codd's paper and the commercial release of Oracle. 1000 flowers have been blooming for years and we know a lot about…

new entry into the market, Stardog from Clark and Parsia, extremely fast and embeddable / scalable RDF database with OWL reasoning built in (they created the Pellet OWL reasoner)

I agree - 2011 going into 2012 is the rise of the semantic web

Re: The Social Graph is Neither

#25
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's assume they had the technical skills to do it So basically a nerd with social skills?

I'm trying to figure out his argument. He's implying that someone with good social skill would suck at designing a social network, but seemingly for more reasons than they just don't have the technical ability. Or maybe that's all he's saying.

I'm denying the premise.

The most popular person in high school was almost certainly not a nerd. Nerds take a while to maxing out their social skills, but once they do I find they are almost as good at it as sales guys or MBA gals.

From my experience the most popular kid almost never had the time to dedicate to crafting the technical skills necessary to build a mega-successful online business, Social or otherwise. Nerds think about things far more than the typical prep or jock.

Re: The Social Graph is Neither

#26
Two things struck me:

- the quality of thinking displayed in this post

- what is in the world is it doing on the delicious clone I signed up for?

This is the same guy that writes about scaling hardware, no? Keep it coming.

Re: The Social Graph is Neither

#27
post #15
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That depends on your definition of a "plain old graph". If you allow arbitrary numbers of edges between nodes and allow edges to carry data, everything will be ok, right? (...right?)

In math... and we're talking math if we're talking RDF & graphs, right?... "arbitrary" is perilously close to a synonym for "infinite" and "unbounded".

That's true, but "infinite" and "unbounded" often also mean "there's no exact or precise solution, but at least for certain circumstances there's a useful approximation that works".

I can calculate pi to "enough" precision, whether I'm making a hula hoop, or a piston ring, or sending a probe to Saturn - I suspect a lot of what I'd like out of a functional "social graph" probably doesn't need much more precision than "three and a bit", 3.1416+-0.0004, or 3.14159265+-0.000000005.

Re: The Social Graph is Neither

#28

Two things struck me: - the quality of thinking displayed in this post - what is in the world is it doing on the delicious clone I signed up for? This is the same guy that writes about scaling hardware, no? Keep it coming.

Scaling hardware, steaks[1], Iceland[2], John Titor[3], scurvy[4], etc.

[1]:http://idlewords.com/2006/04/argentina_on_two_steaks_a_day.h... [2]:http://idlewords.com/2003/11/a_morning_in_iceland.htm [3]:http://idlewords.com/2003/09/best_practices_for_time_travele... [4]:http://idlewords.com/2010/03/scott_and_scurvy.htm

Re: The Social Graph is Neither

#29
Lots of good, interesting ideas in that post.

A few comments: In general, what data you capture, always depends on what you want to do with the data. Any data model is an abstraction, which discards a lot of information. This simplification is what makes the data model useful.

Of course, storing social relations as an undirected, graph with a single type of edge, as is done in Facebook, is a gross simplification of real social structure. Everyone knows that; Facebook know that; but the fact is that you can build a lot of useful stuff, with even such a simple model. Is it perfect? No - I'm sure we will do better in future - but you've got to admit its amazingly successful, for such a simple representation.

So, we aren't going to be able to define a format for the social graph that is so rich, that it will capture all possible uses with it - but I don't see why we couldn't define a format that captures enough detail to do many a great many of the things we might want to.

Next point: graphs are amazingly flexible data structures; if you have a multigraph or hypergraph representation, or a set of graphs, you can represent an awful lot of rich information. Don't knock graphs too much. You could build an awful lot of cool communication functionality, if you had really any rich social graph representation, not necessarily the 'perfect' one.

The author also writes: "In other domains, a big graph would be good for recommendations, but friendship is not transitive. There's just no way to tell if you'll get along with someone in my social circle, no matter how many friends we have in common." Of course, friendship isn't strictly transitive; otherwise the giant connected component of a social graph, would be one big clique; but friendship is highly transitive. That's why recommendation works so well in Facebook. If A is friends with B, and A is friends with C, then there is a vastly higher chance that B is friends with C, than with some other random person. Sociologists have called this 'triadic closure' and studied it for years: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triadic_closure

So, while the recommendations won't be perfect, as things like friendship aren't perfectly transitive, they'll potentially be very good. But what recommendation engine is perfect, anyway?

Finally, the author refers to the problem of finding an adequate model as 'AI-hard' - well, as I've said, any model - even the most perfect one (unless we go and make a copy of the entire state of the world) - is going to sacrifice something. So I see why coming up with a perfect model is impossible. But as to coming up with a model that is adequate for a great many of the possible things we might want to build; well, I'd say 'AI-hard' is an exaggeration.

Re: The Social Graph is Neither

#30
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm trying to figure out his argument. He's implying that someone with good social skill would suck at designing a social network, but seemingly for more reasons than they just don't have the technical ability. Or maybe that's all he's saying.

I'm denying the premise. The most popular person in high school was almost certainly not a nerd. Nerds take a while to maxing out their social skills, but once they do I find they are almost as good at it as sales guys or MBA gals. From my experience the most popular kid almost never had the time to dedicate to crafting the technical skills necessary to build a mega-successful online business, Social or otherwise. Ne…

I think it was Adam Carolla who said that the guys who get laid consistently in high school don't go on to achieve anything. They don't have the drive.
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