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Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

spiegel.de

21–30 of 423 posts

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#21
post #9

Glad to let moralistic foreign policy drive the entire trade block down the shitter (it is moralistic FP because EU did not nut up and actually deploy to protect the so-precious-Ukraine, but instead threw its own economy and living standards into chaos just so they wouldn't be mistaken to be pro-Putler). In short, insanity.

moralistic foreign policy as in not paying a country that sent its goons rape children? also putin said, lavrov said: we won't invade...

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#22
post #9

Glad to let moralistic foreign policy drive the entire trade block down the shitter (it is moralistic FP because EU did not nut up and actually deploy to protect the so-precious-Ukraine, but instead threw its own economy and living standards into chaos just so they wouldn't be mistaken to be pro-Putler). In short, insanity.

Well, it's easy to sit on HN simplify super complex international situation to one dimension with the benefit of hindsight, isn't it?

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#23
Unfortunately Brunsbüttel terminal only finally got the go ahead in January 2022 and it will take 3.5 years to build. It's anyway a good alternative source. https://www.gem.wiki/Brunsb%C3%BCttel_LNG_Terminal

Increasing insulation and installing and building more heat pumps are obvious ways to save on gas. Italy used some big EU subsidies to pay 100% of people's home and house renovations. Would something like that be possible in Germany? 50% subsidy for insulation renovation. Run all the styrofoam, rock wool and glass wool factories nonstop in three shifts. Found new heat pump factories. Train employees.

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#24
post #9

Glad to let moralistic foreign policy drive the entire trade block down the shitter (it is moralistic FP because EU did not nut up and actually deploy to protect the so-precious-Ukraine, but instead threw its own economy and living standards into chaos just so they wouldn't be mistaken to be pro-Putler). In short, insanity.

"Let's not get nuked" isn't moralistic or insane, in my book. A hot war between EU/NATO and Russia is not something anyone should advocate for, nor is letting Russia just take countries it wants on the edges of Europe. The current situation is a direct result of ignoring a long pattern of Russian aggression and expansionism in Georgia, Moldova, and Crimea.

I'm not recommending to have a nuclear war over who gets to collect vodka taxes in some East European town. I am pointing out that these people let moral foreign policy run their entire trade block and foreign policy choices, and not a cold rational calculus of any kind. All the self-sanctions have come to nothing: they have not and will not materially affect the end result of the war.

They've made me, as a citizen in an EU country, pay out of my nose for their moral betterness though, when we are not even a party to the war.

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#25
There are solutions, just unpopular and require a political class that is not fickle and weak.

Solution #1. Capitulate to Putin and treat Russia as a regional power that can gobble and punish its neighbors when they stray too far.

Solution #2. Forget about the climate for the next 5 years, turn on all coal, nuclear powerplants.

Solution #3. Put the Euro printer in overdrive and pay whatever price needed for the little natural gas that's out there and the expense of transportation.

#3 is probably the worst, but also - the easiest for a fickle and weak political class to do. So, that's what's happening.

Won't be surprised if we get hyperinflation in the EU in the winter. The ECB barely functions in good times with its one monetary policy, but different budgets nonsense.

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#26
post #16
post #5

Errr... How about turn on those Nuclear plants?

Natural gas cannot be replaced by nuclear energy (or any other source of electricity) for many applications, at least not in the short term. For example here in Germany, many homes use gas boilers (heaters) for heating space and water. You would need to rebuild a lot of infrastructure to use electricity (which Germany plans to do, but obviously this will take years if not decades).

Is there a difference between the kind of gas used in power plants and the kind for residential use? If not, couldn't nuclear plants reduce the need for gas in power plants, allowing that gas to go to heating homes instead?

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#27
post #3

Covid shut down most LNG production in north america, good opportunity to get back to fracking and ruining the environment in US and Canada for the right price, theh can use tanker ships not just pipes unless they simply can't move that volume with ships.

there is no lng supply possible for Europe. you can frack as much as you want and ship as much as you want. the next 4 quarters will decide about the downfall of Europe (and ultimately the US).

“The US Is Now Sending the Bulk of Its Export Gas to Europe”. From June 7th.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-06-07/the-us-is...

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there is no lng supply possible for Europe. you can frack as much as you want and ship as much as you want. the next 4 quarters will decide about the downfall of Europe (and ultimately the US).

"Constraint is a forcing function for ingenuity." Renewables are going to ramp, floating LNG import terminals are already en route (to add capacity to the existing 24 in EU countries), and industrial processes requiring LNG will make due with less or seek alternatives. Europe will place a small number of coal plants on temporary standby, and they will only add 1.3% to EU emissions annually, even in the worst-case sce…

How will renewables help this winter?

All the stuff you describe are need at least 2 years. At least. Plus, they are expensive. Energy will come with a huge premium in Europe. This is the time that Putin needs to build the pipelines to other countries.

Let us not forget that NOBODY is against the war: not a single South American, not any African country, not China, not India. This is a US/Canada/Europe/South Korea/Japan/Australia thing. Nobody else cares. They are happy to get cheap energy soon.

Short term impact on Europe: - cold winter - populism - crashing economy - gov financial support and more inflation - no inflation control as we cannot let Southern Europe crash, hence, no interest rate hikes

Mid-term effects - Expensive American dirty LNG - No competetive advantage anymore

I disagree with the West to 100% and hope that Putin will finish off Ukraine asap so this topic is finally closed.

Disclaimer: I have Ukranian roots, visited Ukraine often, support refugees here in Germany from day 1 and was for many weeks at the border when the war started. So please go away with your "morals" and value bs.

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#29
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Let's not get nuked" isn't moralistic or insane, in my book. A hot war between EU/NATO and Russia is not something anyone should advocate for, nor is letting Russia just take countries it wants on the edges of Europe. The current situation is a direct result of ignoring a long pattern of Russian aggression and expansionism in Georgia, Moldova, and Crimea.

I'm not recommending to have a nuclear war over who gets to collect vodka taxes in some East European town. I am pointing out that these people let moral foreign policy run their entire trade block and foreign policy choices, and not a cold rational calculus of any kind. All the self-sanctions have come to nothing: they have not and will not materially affect the end result of the war. They've made me, as a citizen i…

The rational calculus here is "Russia will keep doing this as long as we let them".

The time to start getting off Russian gas was 2014. The EU, and Germany in particular, let a gun be pointed at their head for far too long.

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#30
post #5

Errr... How about turn on those Nuclear plants?

Bearing in mind the contents of this graph and that unlike gas nuclear power isnt dispatchable, how much difference do you think it would make?

https://www.cleanenergywire.org/sites/default/files/styles/g...

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