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The Stroke of Genius Strikes Later in Modern Life

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21–30 of 32 posts

Re: The Stroke of Genius Strikes Later in Modern Life

#21
What the article hints at is the reason for this shift:

You need to accumulate more knowledge and do more work before the breakthrough. Meaning you have to start very early on your highly specialized journey.

Are there any recent (past 50 years or so) examples of someone doing great work in some field, but who started late (say age 25 or 30)?

Re: The Stroke of Genius Strikes Later in Modern Life

#22
post #3

If the cause is indeed that it takes longer to get on top of increasing complex fields, then it doesn't bode well for the singularity - when scientists run out of lifespan (e.g. you have to be over 100 to get on top of the field), no more breakthroughs. Of course, it would be really cool if the entire field was overturned with a new abstraction that simplifies the previous epicyclic complexity, and opening up a new s…

It's another reason why we need to cure aging, just in case the reduced quality of life and huge medical expenses weren't enough.

Ageing is nature's way of making way for the young. If we cured ageing there would be more motivation to suppress new births, and then people like you and I might never have come along.

Re: The Stroke of Genius Strikes Later in Modern Life

#24

The wrong assumption they are making is that the pace of science is constant, so that Nobel prizes (which are given out at a constant rate) are a rough approximation of progress. In physics, at least, this is very wrong. In fact, fundamental theoretical physics has been more-or-less stagnant since the late 60's when the Standard Model was finished. But they have to keep handing out Nobel prizes. So the outcome is pre…

The article doesn't make the assumption of linear change in science, on the contrary, studying nobelists means you have only those who made the big leaps forward. There were big leaps in medicine and chemistry, and the pattern seems to be valid: to my knowledge in life sciences you have few young geniuses and many awards are given to collaborative work. Seems like a natural consequence of the fact that science has become increasingly complex and computational.

Re: The Stroke of Genius Strikes Later in Modern Life

#25
post #21

What the article hints at is the reason for this shift: You need to accumulate more knowledge and do more work before the breakthrough. Meaning you have to start very early on your highly specialized journey. Are there any recent (past 50 years or so) examples of someone doing great work in some field, but who started late (say age 25 or 30)?

Hodgkin and Huxleys seminal work in neuroscience was done in their late 30s: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hodgkin%E2%80%93Huxley_model

Feynman formulated the path integral at age 30

Re: The Stroke of Genius Strikes Later in Modern Life

#26

The wrong assumption they are making is that the pace of science is constant, so that Nobel prizes (which are given out at a constant rate) are a rough approximation of progress. In physics, at least, this is very wrong. In fact, fundamental theoretical physics has been more-or-less stagnant since the late 60's when the Standard Model was finished. But they have to keep handing out Nobel prizes. So the outcome is pre…

(a) is primary. Problems in physics are much harder to solve than they were.

For instance, the thing that corresponds to general relativity today is quantum gravity. Other paths exist, but the two that are most traveled are string theory and loop quantum gravity. The math involved in either one is considerably heavier than Einstein's relatively theory, and neither one is in a place where you can calculate real observable things.

There's plenty of (b) to go around, but it's hard to believe we'd know what dark matter is, discover supersymmetry, or have an established "theory of everything" if we cleared away the cobwebs.

Re: The Stroke of Genius Strikes Later in Modern Life

#27
What has changed is that the cost of doing business in scientific fields such as chemistry and physics has become immensely higher. The current paradigm requires a facility on the scale of CERN to even have a hope of overturning Einstein's pen and paper side project of relativity via the discovery of faster than light particles.

In other words, the barrier to entry has been raised in science. Nobody is going to place a 25 year old Phd in charge of a major chemistry research laboratory these days.

On the other hand, in software development, the arts, and other creative fields with low barriers to entry, younger people continue to demonstrate genius regularly.

Re: The Stroke of Genius Strikes Later in Modern Life

#29

The wrong assumption they are making is that the pace of science is constant, so that Nobel prizes (which are given out at a constant rate) are a rough approximation of progress. In physics, at least, this is very wrong. In fact, fundamental theoretical physics has been more-or-less stagnant since the late 60's when the Standard Model was finished. But they have to keep handing out Nobel prizes. So the outcome is pre…

or c.) random chance. Kuhn would say that science consists of long periods of "normal science", in which people flesh out basic theories that have been known for decades, and short periods of "paradigm shifts", where previously ignored evidence is suddenly incorporated into brand-new, world-shifting theories that completely upend the old order. Just because you happen to be in one of those long doldrums of normal sci…

We have had more physicists working in the past few decades than in the rest of human history put together. Statistically, there are dozens of Einsteins and Feynmans and Newtons walking around. But no breakthroughs. You can't attribute this to chance.

Again, mere time is a bad metric for baseline progress.

Re: The Stroke of Genius Strikes Later in Modern Life

#30

The wrong assumption they are making is that the pace of science is constant, so that Nobel prizes (which are given out at a constant rate) are a rough approximation of progress. In physics, at least, this is very wrong. In fact, fundamental theoretical physics has been more-or-less stagnant since the late 60's when the Standard Model was finished. But they have to keep handing out Nobel prizes. So the outcome is pre…

(a) is primary. Problems in physics are much harder to solve than they were. For instance, the thing that corresponds to general relativity today is quantum gravity. Other paths exist, but the two that are most traveled are string theory and loop quantum gravity. The math involved in either one is considerably heavier than Einstein's relatively theory, and neither one is in a place where you can calculate real observ…

This is indeed the story that is usually told, but I find it pretty lacking.
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