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Transport System Bögl: a new magnetic rail system

transportsystemboegl.com

21–30 of 51 posts

Re: Transport System Bögl: a new magnetic rail system

#21

Nice, but it looks ugly AF, it feels very "industrial" I can't imagine this in the middle of EU architecture Or in the middle of Asian temples, or in the middle of a beautiful landscape They really need better designers Also the front doesn't look like aerodynamic

I mean, it looks a lot like the DLR in London which is a bit of a raised concrete eyesore too. But it’s not what you’d choose to plonk down in Vienna or Bruges, I agree.

Re: Transport System Bögl: a new magnetic rail system

#22
Another day, another gadgetbahn. It's hard to tell from their website exactly what problems they're trying to solve. They seem to have taken all of the worst aspects of monorail style operations, the relative complexity of maglev, and the vendor lock-in of a gadgetbahn and have just run with it.

Off the top of my head:

From their rolling (gliding?) stock concepts it looks like they're targeting the automated metro system market, think London DLR or Vancouver Skytrain. With these system top speed isn't really the issue as you'll be constrained by acceleration and stop spacing. Better gains can be had in this space by building better signalling systems, allowing the trains to run at higher frequencies.

All of their marketing materials show the trains going in perfect straight lines. A lot of other monorail systems are constrained by this, because building switches for monorails is hard. Throw maglev into the mix and I can't imagine the problem gets any easier.

They focus a bit on ease of construction with the elevated rail segments being made of pre-cast concrete sections. I'm faily certain any modern elevated train guideway is also made of pre-made sections on a production line. They're trying to sell normal as some kind of innovation.

All the usual gadgetbahn things seem to apply as well. TSB goes bust? Good luck getting new rolling stock. Want to integrate this service with existing stations and track? Nope, it's all bespoke. Want to get rolling stock from a different supplier that can meet your local needs better? Good luck with that one. Nobody else buys this system, so it remains expensive forever? Sucks to be you.

Re: Transport System Bögl: a new magnetic rail system

#23

Nice, but it looks ugly AF, it feels very "industrial" I can't imagine this in the middle of EU architecture Or in the middle of Asian temples, or in the middle of a beautiful landscape They really need better designers Also the front doesn't look like aerodynamic

Trains are relatively long in proportion to their width. That makes the sides of the trains become relatively more important for aerodynamics than the fronts.

Possibly, making the front more aerodynamic has so many disadvantages that it’s not worth it. For example, a train with a long nose means less space for passengers in a given length of train. It also may be a bad choice aerodynamically if you want to have the ability to combine multiple railroad cars into a single train.

Re: Transport System Bögl: a new magnetic rail system

#24
post #11

This is very similar to existing maglev trains (such as transrapid) but has the advantage that a lot of the technology is now in the trains, not in the track. That makes construction of such tracks a lot cheaper (but separate and new tracks are needed anyway). Also, this new system is designed for cruising speeds of up to 150 km/h (instead of 500 km/h). But in addition to passenger transport, they seem to be able to…

The question in my mind is just: if not for higher speeds, why should you build a maglev line instead of a conventional (high speed / regular) train line? IMHO the other purported advantages are not really convincing - it may be a little bit quieter, but the "flexible track routing" sounds very unconvincing: at ground level you would have to fence off the track, so in an urban setting it would probably end up on stilts most of the time. And if you consider that, phrases like "Visually appealing track route for urban use without overhead lines" sound a bit ridiculous - is a concrete guideway on concrete stilts really more visually appealing than tram (or train) rails with overhead line? (In case anyone is wondering: Germany has the luxury problem of having all other cables - power, telecom, etc. - 99% underground, so they can debate the aesthetic impact of overhead lines of trams. Not an issue in most other countries.)

Re: Transport System Bögl: a new magnetic rail system

#25

Nice, but it looks ugly AF, it feels very "industrial" I can't imagine this in the middle of EU architecture Or in the middle of Asian temples, or in the middle of a beautiful landscape They really need better designers Also the front doesn't look like aerodynamic

If it's ugly AF and it takes 10K cars off the roads, then it's not that ugly. Much like "if it's stupid but it works, then it's not stupid".

"EU architecture" already juxtaposes ornate pre-1900 buildings with brutalist concrete blocks and glass spires, so no change there.

Re: Transport System Bögl: a new magnetic rail system

#26
post #22

Another day, another gadgetbahn. It's hard to tell from their website exactly what problems they're trying to solve. They seem to have taken all of the worst aspects of monorail style operations, the relative complexity of maglev, and the vendor lock-in of a gadgetbahn and have just run with it. Off the top of my head: From their rolling (gliding?) stock concepts it looks like they're targeting the automated metro sy…

Maglev has some advantages for high speed operation: less rolling resistance at speed (but worse in slow sections - while not rolling resistance, at low speed they are not as efficient), and less track maintenance. Problem is until you get to high speed those advantages are not worth it, and when you do air resistance is very expensive and so you need a lot more riders or a high ticket price.

In the end maglev isn't worth it. It is only marginally faster than regular rail, and a lot slower than flying. You can bring a few cities just outside of regular rail range into train range, but if you just let those people fly you overall have a cheaper system.

Sticking to standard rail means that you can share track with other service. While this isn't easy (you need a lot of people in the office ensuring the schedule works) the options make it well worth it. Even if you only share rail overnight when you are running less service, 24 hour service is something all cities should have on all lines.

Re: Transport System Bögl: a new magnetic rail system

#27
post #18

We should not forget the backstory of this company. Max Bögel is the largest family-owned construction company in Germany. They build mainly infrastructure like roads, but where also involved in the Gigafactory in Grünheide in Germany. So, for them its a new business unit to build more infrastructure as a whole contractor. They can delivery everything, not like it is today in infrastructure projects where you have ma…

Interesting, lived in Germany for 30 years (although decades ago), but had never heard about them.

Just wanted to say if the Transrapid consortium with the biggest German industry players and decades of public investment backing could not make it, I would not try again. This is not the SW business where any can start with some resources rented in the cloud. Of course sometimes it's just too early to be right, but wouldn't count on it.

On the anecdotal side my first presentation in school around 1972 was about the German Maglev train project. It did not go as predicted, they sold one minor line to Shanghai decades later.

Re: Transport System Bögl: a new magnetic rail system

#28
post #18

We should not forget the backstory of this company. Max Bögel is the largest family-owned construction company in Germany. They build mainly infrastructure like roads, but where also involved in the Gigafactory in Grünheide in Germany. So, for them its a new business unit to build more infrastructure as a whole contractor. They can delivery everything, not like it is today in infrastructure projects where you have ma…

I wish they would sell standard systems. If it is just concrete we need more competition bringing costs down.

Standard not only means you won't get an orphan system, but it also means you as a city can order from anyone. If the company you normally order from is busy with other orders you can buy from someone else when you have need.

Standard means as a manufacture you can afford to invest in more jigs. Jigs are very expensive to make, but they decrease the cost of each whatever built with them. As such the more customers of the same thing the more jigs are worth investing in. Every change the jigs cannot handle is additional cost. (some jigs are adjustable, so within limits you could do things like non-standard wheel gauges - you still shouldn't but you could)

Re: Transport System Bögl: a new magnetic rail system

#29
post #4

I looked at the site, I can’t tell what’s new about it. Kinda looks like less-grimy BART to me, and that’s hardly modern. Does anyone know more about what’s innovative here?

marketing, like most gadgetbahns. There is a reason transit enthusiasts in general look down on this. Anyone who knows something about how to run trains knows this at best done nothing to solve the real problems facing transit, and most likely if they get even one sale it makes things worse for everyone.

Re: Transport System Bögl: a new magnetic rail system

#30
post #8

seems it's another maglev train solution. maglev trains seemed cool watching videos close to 2 decades ago. seems they're coming to fruition finally something to get excited about

Not something to get excited about because maglev doesn't solve any of the real problems trains have in the real world.
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