Eclipse launches new language to cut down Java boilerplate

Re: Eclipse launches new language to cut down Java boilerplate - Extend

#21

Post by bunderbunder » Fri, Nov 04, 2011, 10:54 PM UTC

hopeless wrote: post #5

Oh, it looks like Xtend is to Java as Coffeescript is to Javascript. Although I'm sceptical about it compiling to Java source. Java seems to be going through a period of experimentation, and alternative Java-like and JVM languages. Interesting times.

It would be nice to at least have the option to compile to bytecode, but this is a good start. I'm hoping it was just a decision to get the language out there and drum up interest before taking on a bigger project, and a 'real' compiler is on the way.

This one in particular is interesting since it seems to be an attempt to catch up with some of the rapid development C# has made. The Java platform is great, but the language has visibly been allowed to grow moss lately.

Re: Eclipse launches new language to cut down Java boilerplate - Extend

#22

Post by coryfoo » Fri, Nov 04, 2011, 10:54 PM UTC

First thing I thought when I read the headline: "Oh boy, half ass Kotlin, here we come".

First thing I thought when I saw the website: "Oooh look, Twitter Bootstrap"

Re: Eclipse launches new language to cut down Java boilerplate - Extend

#23

Post by maximusprime » Fri, Nov 04, 2011, 10:54 PM UTC

nyellin wrote: post #14

Parenthesis for method invocations are optional, if the method does not take any arguments. obj.compute instead of obj.compute() That seems silly. The optional semicolons also irritate me. ----------------- (Added) I imagine a committee of Java developers, in a penthouse boardroom at Oracle, meeting with management to discuss Java's descent into disuse. "Lets make Java more concise," suggests a senior developer. "Yes…

It's pandering to hipsters. Parenthesis are just to obvious.

Re: Eclipse launches new language to cut down Java boilerplate - Extend

#24

Post by davidhansen » Fri, Nov 04, 2011, 10:55 PM UTC

This looks to be an also-ran related to the Project Kotlin that JetBrains launched some time ago:

http://confluence.jetbrains.net/display/Kotlin/Welcome

Also:

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2784086

Re: Eclipse launches new language to cut down Java boilerplate - Extend

#25

Post by oacgnol » Fri, Nov 04, 2011, 10:55 PM UTC

nyellin wrote: post #14

Parenthesis for method invocations are optional, if the method does not take any arguments. obj.compute instead of obj.compute() That seems silly. The optional semicolons also irritate me. ----------------- (Added) I imagine a committee of Java developers, in a penthouse boardroom at Oracle, meeting with management to discuss Java's descent into disuse. "Lets make Java more concise," suggests a senior developer. "Yes…

That's what Scala already does: if a method does not take any args then the parentheses aren't necessary.

To quote Odersky: "This convention supports the uniform access principle which says that client code should not be affected by a decision to implement an attribute as a field or method."

It makes sense if you want to implement something that may be a field but needs to be computed.

Re: Eclipse launches new language to cut down Java boilerplate - Extend

#26

Post by rapind » Fri, Nov 04, 2011, 10:56 PM UTC

I wish they'd taken it just a little further and made surrounding brackets optional (using indentation instead). I.e.

  def greetABunchOfPeople(List people)
    people.forEach
      println(sayHello)

Re: Eclipse launches new language to cut down Java boilerplate - Extend

#27

Post by bunderbunder » Fri, Nov 04, 2011, 10:59 PM UTC

lemming wrote: post #13

hopeless wrote: post #5

Oh, it looks like Xtend is to Java as Coffeescript is to Javascript. Although I'm sceptical about it compiling to Java source. Java seems to be going through a period of experimentation, and alternative Java-like and JVM languages. Interesting times.

One of the nice things about compiling to Java source is that it allows you use it with GWT. The only downside that I can see is that there might be constructs that you can't express in Java that you would want in a new language (note that you're fine with ones that you can technically express in Java but are just ugly, like closures). There are probably not very many of them, though.

I didn't notice any mention of taking care of the primitive/object divide. That would be high on my wish list.

Re: Eclipse launches new language to cut down Java boilerplate - Extend

#28

Post by discreteevent » Fri, Nov 04, 2011, 11:01 PM UTC

Check out xtext which this is based on. Is even more interesting: Define a grammar and it will generate an editor with code completion etc. For a full programming language (as opposed to a small DSL) its important to be able to "debug at the level of the abstraction" as Dave Thomas (not pragprog Dave) says. This looks like it generates code, so you can't do that.

Re: Eclipse launches new language to cut down Java boilerplate - Extend

#29

Post by mbreese » Fri, Nov 04, 2011, 11:03 PM UTC

You know that when even Eclipse is coming out with an updated JVM/Java.next language that Java proper has some major issues.

Re: Eclipse launches new language to cut down Java boilerplate - Extend

#30

Post by Roybatty » Fri, Nov 04, 2011, 11:04 PM UTC

Lewisham wrote: post #15

This basically looks like Kotlin, except it explicitly compiles down to Java. I'm not sure how I feel about this. Pre-Kotlin, I would have thought "hey, neat", but now it seems like we're on the verge of a number of half-supported half-hearted attempts at being Java.next, each with their own pros and cons. I wish that IDEA and Eclipse could have worked together on this.

Even though Kotlin is still essentially vaporware for those outside Jetbrains, we know that it'll have at least decent (if not great) IDE support right off the bat when the alpha/beta is released.

I think that Kotlin could be the Java successor that Scala never will be.