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Is McKinsey and Co. The Root of All Evil? (2011)

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Re: Is McKinsey and Co. The Root of All Evil? (2011)

#21

Post by omginternets »

michele_f wrote: post #11

> _Indeed, where ever there has been a financial disaster in the world, if you look around, somewhere in the background, McKinsey & Co. is nearby._ It seems that selection bias is something journalists really struggle with...

Speaking as someone with a journalism degree (before pursuing more substantive fields), I can assert with great confidence that journalists are trained to write, and little else. The result is a skilled rhetorician with very little hard knowledge, and little ability to reason from first principles. Without these, one has few means of evaluating the merit of any information or story.

Notable exceptions to this rule exist, but they are rare. One should be exceedingly skeptical of journalism absent expertise.

Re: Is McKinsey and Co. The Root of All Evil? (2011)

#23

Post by fleetwoodsnack »

civilized wrote: post #19
strulovich wrote: post #13

I’d love to hate on McKinsey, but this piece is just anger with a few cherry picks. It’s a bad habit to take this seriously. It doesn’t even address the simplest explanation for most of this: big companies that are doing bad contact McKinsey to try and change strategies, so of course many bankruptcies follow hiring them. It’ll be like blaming the fire department for fire deaths because the trucks always seem to be ne…

The author doesn't do a great job making the point, but there's more to it than that. In many cases, McKinsey encouraged strategies that harmed either the company, society, or both: - Shady accounting at Enron - Aggressive denial of claims at Allstate - Aggressive marketing of opioids at Purdue Pharma These strategies were not just one-off misfires, but deeply involved McKinsey's senior leadership over multiple years…

Well said. It’s almost a meme at this point: HN commentor takes a reductive stance that sounds clever in theory, but collapses when confronted with the actual factual circumstances. Repeat ad nauseam with no gains in collective self-awareness.

Re: Is McKinsey and Co. The Root of All Evil? (2011)

#25

Post by BrianOnHN »

HPsquared wrote: post #20
feet wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly the thing Capitalism is the system out of which these problems have sprung. People keep shouting about "real" or "pure" capitalism being better but that's all a lie spread by the capital owners through their think-tanks. Its propaganda If we organize corporations to be owned by the workers instead of shareholders, the few with real capital, then the interest of the corporation will shift to that of th…

There's always going to be "management", especially if ownership is diffuse. Where there is management, there will be management consultants (of one style or another).

> There's always going to be "management",

Fuck crypto, but the concept of a DAO may change this.

Re: Is McKinsey and Co. The Root of All Evil? (2011)

#26

Post by feet »

pastacacioepepe wrote: post #16
feet wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly the thing Capitalism is the system out of which these problems have sprung. People keep shouting about "real" or "pure" capitalism being better but that's all a lie spread by the capital owners through their think-tanks. Its propaganda If we organize corporations to be owned by the workers instead of shareholders, the few with real capital, then the interest of the corporation will shift to that of th…

> A corporation with the interest of workers won't hire consultants like McKinsey Consultancy might still exist as it provides value, it's just that some kind of suggestions would be completely unacceptable if your priorities are worker welfare and prosperity and you are not allowed to externalize costs on society.

That's a good point. My assumption is that with a more democratic structure governing corporation decisions, those decisions will likely be less aligned with the ideology of "profit at the expense of all else" which can lead to some of the projects that McKinsey has worked on. Of course its not foolproof and the organizations could still make those decisions, but I think it would still mitigate a good portion which would be a step in the right direction.

Re: Is McKinsey and Co. The Root of All Evil? (2011)

#27

Post by chasd00 »

ciphol wrote: post #24
chasd00 wrote: post #22

My little sister worked there for a while. I think McKinsey worked on both Obama’s and McCain’s campaign at the same time. Talk about a heads I win / tails I win situation heh.

Heads I win / tails you lose is the phrase I believe :)

I like heads I win / tails I win as one notch up from the usual. Heads i win / tails you lose could imply that we both lost. However, heads I win / tails I win seems more appropriate for McKinsey and the other truly ruthless (or singular focused) orgs out there.

Re: Is McKinsey and Co. The Root of All Evil? (2011)

#28

Post by matwood »

vsskanth wrote: post #17

McKinsey is doing what they're paid to do - take the blame for bad decisions and deflect attention away from the leadership of companies who actually choose to follow their advice. Even from this article you can see they're doing an excellent job. If I were an executive I would absolutely hire them after reading this article since I can just use them to enact unpopular changes I've always wanted, and wouldn't be blam…

Yeah, I rarely see consultants give much advice beyond what the leadership already said they wanted to do - albeit not often directly.

What seems to commonly happen is a consultant comes in, listens to leadership, and then regurgitates what leadership already really wants to do. This lets leadership absolve some of the responsibility when it fails ("The consultant told us to do X").

And it makes sense because who knows the business better than leadership? The consultants can't really do much else other than take their cues from leadership. What routinely surprises me is just how much companies are willing to pay for this service.

Re: Is McKinsey and Co. The Root of All Evil? (2011)

#29

Post by Bloating »

feet wrote: post #14
pastacacioepepe wrote: post #6

McKinsey is merely a byproduct, if you want to get to the root you have to analyze Capitalism, the system out of which McKinsey-like entities emerged as the best fit for its natural selection.

This is exactly the thing Capitalism is the system out of which these problems have sprung. People keep shouting about "real" or "pure" capitalism being better but that's all a lie spread by the capital owners through their think-tanks. Its propaganda If we organize corporations to be owned by the workers instead of shareholders, the few with real capital, then the interest of the corporation will shift to that of th…

This is the result of centralization of power, and nothing more.

People are people, regardless of what faction you've been brainwashed to believe supports the greater good

Re: Is McKinsey and Co. The Root of All Evil? (2011)

#30

Post by mschuster91 »

feet wrote: post #14
pastacacioepepe wrote: post #6

McKinsey is merely a byproduct, if you want to get to the root you have to analyze Capitalism, the system out of which McKinsey-like entities emerged as the best fit for its natural selection.

This is exactly the thing Capitalism is the system out of which these problems have sprung. People keep shouting about "real" or "pure" capitalism being better but that's all a lie spread by the capital owners through their think-tanks. Its propaganda If we organize corporations to be owned by the workers instead of shareholders, the few with real capital, then the interest of the corporation will shift to that of th…

> If we organize corporations to be owned by the workers instead of shareholders

That model isn't a good solution either - it would require for workers to "buy in" into the cooperative in order to have a job. Most cooperatives are founded by a group of people pooling together their individual assets to start operations.

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