The Perils of Audience Capture • Hacker News Board

Re: The Perils of Audience Capture

#21

Post by the_af » Fri, Jul 01, 2022, 1:22 PM UTC

projektfu wrote: post #4

I'm wondering if this extends to some of the bigger names, people who supposedly are molding an audience but may have been, themselves, molded by it. Rush Limbaugh, Dr. Oz, Joel Osteen... Food for thought.

I think it does apply to any extremist "prophet" on any side of the spectrum.

The way to escape, I think, is to make a conscious effort, to understand that sometimes -- even often -- you won't please your audience, and that moderation and backtracking on opinions and actions is valid and reasonable, even if your audience will consider you a fake or a flip-flopper.

Which means this is really hard. At least on the internet and for public influencers.

Re: The Perils of Audience Capture

#22

Post by pjc50 » Fri, Jul 01, 2022, 1:24 PM UTC

paganel wrote: post #17

> One example is Louise Mensch, a once-respectable journalist and former Conservative politician who in 2016 published a story about Trump's alleged ties to Russia, Basically the entire mainstream media went on that route during the second part of 2016, some of them are still on it, 6 years later, not sure why this lady (of whom I had never heard until now) got the short stick out of it. > In January, after he lost h…

When talking about "Russiagate", as with the Jan 6 hearings, it's important to distinguish between things that have been proven, things that are highly plausible but have inadequate evidence, things for which no evidence has been found despite a search, and things that were never claimed in the first place.

A number of people close to Trump did have links to Russian intelligence: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/2/20/17031772/m... ; the most notable examples are Paul Manafort, who got years in prison, mostly for failing to pay US income tax on his bribes, and the NRA Russian spy Maria Butina.

It has not been proven that Trump was complicit in any of this, which is why he's not yet in jail.

Louise Mensch is .. odd. She seems to be very much a publicity seeker, she even started her own social network "menshn": https://www.theguardian.com/media/2013/feb/06/menshn-close-l...

Re: The Perils of Audience Capture

#23

Post by the_af » Fri, Jul 01, 2022, 1:25 PM UTC

bruce511 wrote: post #5

It's more economics than psychology though right? Everyone is in search of an audience, or in economic terms, each producer is in search of consumers. Once you find a market you can tailor your fit to suit that market. I might start out making leisurewear, but when I discover most of my sales is sweat-pants, I'm likely to focus my attention there, creating more designs in a narrower niche. "influencer" is a recent ca…

Well, the article argues, and I agree, that a lot of it is due to psychology.

There is both a conscious and an unconscious mechanism at play here. The unconscious one is probably the more dangerous, because it's harder to control.

When someone becomes morbidly obese and risks dying because of trying to please an internet audience, it's hard to convince me there isn't a strong psychological factor at play.

Re: The Perils of Audience Capture

#24

Post by the_af » Fri, Jul 01, 2022, 1:26 PM UTC

hunglee2 wrote: post #16

outstanding essay - suddenly we have an explanation how people can 'self radicalise' - it is in fact via a tight feedback loop with an audience. Milo went down this route - he was always a provocateur but dove deep into the alt-right when the found he could gain an audience there. Not clear how people can get out of this once they are there - the acquired audience is never going to signal 'stop' so the the motivation…

Not only is the audience never going to signal stop, they often will aggressively discourage it and go into attack mode if the influencer/celebrity deviates from the expected path.

Re: The Perils of Audience Capture

#25

Post by paganel » Fri, Jul 01, 2022, 1:28 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #22

paganel wrote: post #17

> One example is Louise Mensch, a once-respectable journalist and former Conservative politician who in 2016 published a story about Trump's alleged ties to Russia, Basically the entire mainstream media went on that route during the second part of 2016, some of them are still on it, 6 years later, not sure why this lady (of whom I had never heard until now) got the short stick out of it. > In January, after he lost h…

When talking about "Russiagate", as with the Jan 6 hearings, it's important to distinguish between things that have been proven, things that are highly plausible but have inadequate evidence, things for which no evidence has been found despite a search, and things that were never claimed in the first place. A number of people close to Trump did have links to Russian intelligence: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politi…

I'm talking about "Trump had sex with Russian prostitutes in a Moscow hotel, the Russians have videos of it, Trump is henceforth blackmailed by Putin". It was first-page news on news websites like NYTimes and the BBC. It proved out to be false. Afaik both the NYTimes and the BBC are still in the news business after all that.

Re: The Perils of Audience Capture

#26

Post by pjc50 » Fri, Jul 01, 2022, 1:30 PM UTC

paganel wrote: post #25

pjc50 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When talking about "Russiagate", as with the Jan 6 hearings, it's important to distinguish between things that have been proven, things that are highly plausible but have inadequate evidence, things for which no evidence has been found despite a search, and things that were never claimed in the first place. A number of people close to Trump did have links to Russian intelligence: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politi…

I'm talking about "Trump had sex with Russian prostitutes in a Moscow hotel, the Russians have videos of it, Trump is henceforth blackmailed by Putin". It was first-page news on news websites like NYTimes and the BBC. It proved out to be false. Afaik both the NYTimes and the BBC are still in the news business after all that.

Go on, cite the articles claiming those statements.

Re: The Perils of Audience Capture

#27

Post by Chimes101 » Fri, Jul 01, 2022, 1:31 PM UTC

bruce511 wrote: post #5

It's more economics than psychology though right? Everyone is in search of an audience, or in economic terms, each producer is in search of consumers. Once you find a market you can tailor your fit to suit that market. I might start out making leisurewear, but when I discover most of my sales is sweat-pants, I'm likely to focus my attention there, creating more designs in a narrower niche. "influencer" is a recent ca…

You have a good point but the economics and the psychological aspects are very intertwined. The more you can understand what people want, the better the opportunity adjust to meet their needs.

A major concern from this (at least for me) is to be aware of what you are doing for yourself and for others.

In this case, what is the persona or brand you are creating and deciding whether you want to incorporate that into your personal life or keep it separate.

I feel that a lot of folks who become famous run into the effect that their fans have on them or what they perceive that their fans want from them.

Heck, it really is just an amplified version of probably everyone. We all alter our behavior to some degree based off variabilities in different situations.

Re: The Perils of Audience Capture

#28

Post by paganel » Fri, Jul 01, 2022, 1:54 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #26

paganel wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm talking about "Trump had sex with Russian prostitutes in a Moscow hotel, the Russians have videos of it, Trump is henceforth blackmailed by Putin". It was first-page news on news websites like NYTimes and the BBC. It proved out to be false. Afaik both the NYTimes and the BBC are still in the news business after all that.

Go on, cite the articles claiming those statements.

We both know they were educated enough to not use those exact words (you won't ever get an OxBridge graduate to write the word "prostitute" down on "paper", even if his/her life depended on it, they're above this plebeian stuff), but that was the gist of the reports back then, yes (I'm thinking mostly December 2016). Of course, the likes of the NYTimes did an 180 (I'd call it a 360, but that's just me) and last year came out with this gem [1]:

> Why the Discredited [Steele] Dossier Does Not Undercut the Russia Investigation (...)

> No. The Mueller report does not present claims from the dossier as evidence, and many of the issues focused on by investigators did not come up in the dossier.

"So, we were damn wrong on the "prostitutes" thing, someone will most likely go to prison for it (not us, fortunately), but trust us when we say this other bad thing about Trump!"

On a more general note, it takes more and more mental, I don't even know how to call it, I guess hygiene is the word, to remain sane among all this stuff. I mean, as a reader of news and as a citizen (of the world, I'm not personally from the States) who wants to remain on top of things by staying educated on what's happening and why it is happening. It just isn't humanly possible anymore, the alienating forces have become too powerful. That also explains part of the article posted by the OP.

[1] https://archive.ph/2fHH5#selection-313.0-313.70

Re: The Perils of Audience Capture

#29

Post by ThinkingGuy » Fri, Jul 01, 2022, 2:12 PM UTC

vehemenz wrote: post #15

This whole piece is spot on. The most obvious example of audience capture that occurs to me is Joe Rogan's podcast. From about 2010-2013, it was a comedy podcast that was just starting to get some high-profile guests. My theory is that his numbers with the conspiracy theorists and MMA bros were doing too well to ignore, and the transition into increasingly alt-right commentators was slow enough to not scare off regul…

Another example that came to my mind: Marjorie Taylor Green (US congress member). The idea of audience capture appears to explain her rise perfectly:

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/02/25/marjorie-t...

Re: The Perils of Audience Capture

#30

Post by hunglee2 » Fri, Jul 01, 2022, 2:20 PM UTC

the_af wrote: post #24

hunglee2 wrote: post #16

outstanding essay - suddenly we have an explanation how people can 'self radicalise' - it is in fact via a tight feedback loop with an audience. Milo went down this route - he was always a provocateur but dove deep into the alt-right when the found he could gain an audience there. Not clear how people can get out of this once they are there - the acquired audience is never going to signal 'stop' so the the motivation…

Not only is the audience never going to signal stop, they often will aggressively discourage it and go into attack mode if the influencer/celebrity deviates from the expected path.

yeah 100%, like riding a tiger, you can't ever get off