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Outsourcing Startups

appicurious.com

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Re: Outsourcing Startups

#21

Post by huyegn »

pitdesi wrote: post #4

We ( http://feefighters.com ) found our lead designer in Bulgaria. We posted a project on Crowdspring where we asked for a redesign of TransFS.com. Tisho ( http://twitter.com/tisho ) did such a good job that we brought him on full-time. We don't have any communications/timezone/culture issues at all... he knows American pop-culture better than most of us do (thank torrents for that I suppose?), his English is impecca…

We're also looking into getting a designer for our site, I'd be interested in hearing how you managed the project.

When you started with your designer, how did you convey the type of look and feel that you wanted to give your business? Did you point them to other similar looking sites or was he/she the one that pushed forward the final vision and design (which BTW looks great)?

Re: Outsourcing Startups

#22

Post by Don_Wallace »

It seems that lowering the cost of software development as a key driver of startup success is being emphasized.

A few things:

One could argue that if the business case for the startup were strong enough, the cost of development would be almost (within a very wide band) irrelevant or at least you could more easily justify the expense. An example would be having already-signed-up beta users and having a mailing list of interested prospects in hand.

Secondly, does anyone not care about new versions, maintenance and ongoing support? If you are truly operating a business, then having the ability to support the product is key. An outsourcer can leave the business or the team can disband, so you have no control over the institutional knowledge. (The "outsourcing core competencies" issue.)

Last, the title "outsourcing startups" seems a bit misleading, almost as though an entire startup can be outsourced like a commodity. We're still talking about outsourcing the coding.

But maybe the commoditizing of startups is the next natural step in evolution, if it is not happening already.

Re: Outsourcing Startups

#23

Post by Egregore »

I know a successful startup, they had an office in Republic of Moldova, now all of the devs have moved to US (on H1B) I think this way the firms tried to retain talents.

Another startup also with developers in Republic of Moldova have been bought out by Adobe.

In both cases there was a good dev lead in US and most of the developers in Moldova.

Re: Outsourcing Startups

#24

Post by curt »

Big fan of using Central and South American developers. You don't have the time zone issues, their English is usually fantastic, and the cultural differences are minimally (when compared to places such as India). Used them all the time when I had my own firm and didn't have time or resources for in-house development. Also a big fan of the Kiwi's if you have something you can hand off with a fully defined spec.

Re: Outsourcing Startups

#25

Post by byoung2 »

snorkel wrote: post #14

From my experiences outsourcing saves money but costs velocity. There is much time spent creating detailed specs, clarifying the specs, reviewing delivered code then immediately demanding key improvements made to that code, replacing subpar developers, pinging developers that have gone AWOL, and all of this happening with the usual timezone delays. Sometimes its faster to write the code yourself than it is to create…

There is much time spent creating detailed specs, clarifying the specs, reviewing delivered code then immediately demanding key improvements made to that code, replacing subpar developers

One could argue that this time would be well-spent even if your development team is in-house. The convenience of having all of your developers sitting in one room with you often leads to laziness and sloppy project management. When the customer service guys can approach an in-house developer immediately with a bug a customer reported, sometimes the bug gets fixed, committed, and deployed right away with no documentation. This makes for a great experience for that customer, and management can pat themselves on the back and call their team "agile" but imagine the alternative scenario.

Say that customer service rep has to create a detailed bug report with screenshots and steps to reproduce the error, and in the middle of the night (because of timezones) your outsourced dev fixes the bug and completes a post-mortem to close the ticket before committing and deploying. This leads to more organized processes, better documentation, etc.

Re: Outsourcing Startups

#26

Post by swombat »

byoung2 wrote: post #25
snorkel wrote: post #14

From my experiences outsourcing saves money but costs velocity. There is much time spent creating detailed specs, clarifying the specs, reviewing delivered code then immediately demanding key improvements made to that code, replacing subpar developers, pinging developers that have gone AWOL, and all of this happening with the usual timezone delays. Sometimes its faster to write the code yourself than it is to create…

There is much time spent creating detailed specs, clarifying the specs, reviewing delivered code then immediately demanding key improvements made to that code, replacing subpar developers One could argue that this time would be well-spent even if your development team is in-house. The convenience of having all of your developers sitting in one room with you often leads to laziness and sloppy project management. When…

That's exactly the point snorkel is making. You can get all that documentation, but that costs velocity.

For an early startup, velocity is way, way, way more important than clear documentation. When you're sitting with a rapidly shrinking runway and no viable business model, writing a spec, post-mortem, or documentation for a bug is a total waste of your precious, limited resources, like doing lunges when you're running out of air.

Re: Outsourcing Startups

#27

Post by dquigley »

Using the word outsourcing I believe biases this conversation in a negative way. Another way to title this article positively would be, "You can find high quality programming talent outside the Valley & even the US, which can save your startup cash". Because if you treated them like any other startup employee (part of the team), just working from a distance, and not as an outsourced developer, I think what you are suggesting has a big potential.

To use a headhunter analogy. There is too much hunting in the valley for the best, so go outside, even outside the US to find great talent affordably.

Re: Outsourcing Startups

#28

Post by mkramlich »

Summary: consider Bulgaria for outsourcing your software development.

As typically happens, no mention of language issues, culture issues, timezone differences, or what kind of talent level you're getting for your dollar. All warm bodies are equal myth, etc. In theory, it can work great. Sometimes, it does. Often it doesn't. Caveat emptor.

Re: Outsourcing Startups

#29

Post by teyc »

pitdesi wrote: post #4

We ( http://feefighters.com ) found our lead designer in Bulgaria. We posted a project on Crowdspring where we asked for a redesign of TransFS.com. Tisho ( http://twitter.com/tisho ) did such a good job that we brought him on full-time. We don't have any communications/timezone/culture issues at all... he knows American pop-culture better than most of us do (thank torrents for that I suppose?), his English is impecca…

Thanks - this is actionable. Could you ask Tisho what are the other channels available. Is eLance et al the place to start?
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