No-one knows what they are doing • Hacker News Board

Re: No-one knows what they are doing

#21

Post by ben_w » Mon, Jun 20, 2022, 9:45 AM UTC

alvperez82 wrote: post #9

radu_floricica wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Danmark vs Britain. From what I read occasionally in Dominic Cumming's blog, Boris isn't particularly good at using the bureaucracy.

Absolutely true, the most realistic post about business that I've red in time you are complaining about Boris, you have to see here in Spain to Pedro Sanchez, it's a completely mess

Given even just Johnson’s COVID history — banned unnecessary gatherings under penalty of fines with a large publicity campaign, attended at least eight of the at least sixteen unnecessary gatherings at No. 10 (including his birthday and a Christmas party), caught COVID and almost died from it, repeatedly asserted that there had not been any party and that if that no rules wrote broken, was fined for breaking the rules, and still hasn’t resigned — I dread to think what you have in mind for Mr Sanchez.

Re: No-one knows what they are doing

#22

Post by lbriner » Mon, Jun 20, 2022, 10:01 AM UTC

_zamorano_ wrote: post #20

EnKopVand wrote: post #5

I’m going to let you in on a little secret. I spent almost a decade in public sector digitalisation in Denmark, and those politicians who look like they don’t know what they are doing in the media, well, they absolutely know what they are doing. Not only that, but they get advice from a bureaucracy full of well educated, really smart people, who also know what they are doing and have known so for decades. One of the…

>>> when you're held accountable by an entire country... This is blatantly untrue. Heck, the infamous trifecta Bush-Blair-Aznar led their countries on a war that destroyed a country and costed many human lifes, based on what we know were lies and invented data. What consecuences did they face? And that's just an example. I can show you as many corruption cases as you want, and see how the subjects go on with their ca…

OP wasn't saying that all people are always held accountable for all of their actions but the Iraq war caused a massive problem for Labour at the polls that they never really recovered from. Also, the incessent onslaught of media vultures trying to stir trouble for a headline will certainly make it harder for people to make decisions that they believe to be right because most people won't understand all of the variables and will cause massive criticism.

Until we are front page news for being "naive", "stupid", "arrogant", "monster", we can't really understand the pressure that Governments are under.

Re: No-one knows what they are doing

#23

Post by hkon » Mon, Jun 20, 2022, 10:02 AM UTC

Having worked many places and looked at various technical solutions developed and used, I can understand where the author is coming from. Many things work and get the job done, but it's clear that the creators had little knowledge about how to solve the problems they solved from a mere technical know-how perspective.

I read him as don't think you need to know everything about something to start doing it.

Re: No-one knows what they are doing

#24

Post by ben_w » Mon, Jun 20, 2022, 10:02 AM UTC

TedShiller wrote: post #10

Quoted post unavailable.

Did Biden face, and somehow win, a vote of no-confidence from his own party after photographic evidence emerged that forced the police to fine him for violating regulations that he had personally introduced, publicly supported, and denied violating? Because that’s the state of the British government at the moment.

Re: No-one knows what they are doing

#25

Post by raducu » Mon, Jun 20, 2022, 10:05 AM UTC

EnKopVand wrote: post #5

I’m going to let you in on a little secret. I spent almost a decade in public sector digitalisation in Denmark, and those politicians who look like they don’t know what they are doing in the media, well, they absolutely know what they are doing. Not only that, but they get advice from a bureaucracy full of well educated, really smart people, who also know what they are doing and have known so for decades. One of the…

> well, they absolutely know what they are doing

My grandfather had neighbours whom he routinely looked down upon because of their alcohol problem.

Very late in the life of one of their children I talked with him and found out he was a really smart guy, knew a lot of IT stuff, 3D design an all, but he simply lucked out in late 90's Romania, used a lot of alcohol and could not pull himself out of it. He died because he was drunk and after loading a wagon of wood for my grandma he struck his head on the pavement. My father insisted he went to the hospital because he has not feeling well but the guy refused. He died a couple of days later because of brain hemorrhage, in his early 50s.

Another guy in the village, a really helpful fellow, you would never believe it by his appearance or demeanor, but he was a retired secret-service officer and used to brief the president.

A female child development therapist that made a bad impression on myself(she seemed fixated on puzzle solving) was later recommended by others as an expert in her field.

So yes, everybody can have a bad day and its really easy to misjudge someone by their appearance.

Re: No-one knows what they are doing

#26

Post by nathias » Mon, Jun 20, 2022, 10:05 AM UTC

EnKopVand wrote: post #5

I’m going to let you in on a little secret. I spent almost a decade in public sector digitalisation in Denmark, and those politicians who look like they don’t know what they are doing in the media, well, they absolutely know what they are doing. Not only that, but they get advice from a bureaucracy full of well educated, really smart people, who also know what they are doing and have known so for decades. One of the…

They know what they are doing in their immediate context, they follow the rules of their bureacuracies but have no idea nor possible idea of the consequences of their policies. And their being "well-meaning" has a very narrow scope limited to their immediate social and economic class.

Re: No-one knows what they are doing

#27

Post by lbriner » Mon, Jun 20, 2022, 10:06 AM UTC

freiherr wrote: post #16

What people know is just practical knowledge of their immediate surrounding and a bit of theoretical models of what is outside. If by "knowing what they are doing" you mean deep understanding of everything from the big picture then it's impossible. Doing your own local stuff as good as possible is the best we can get and it usually works reasonably well. Until we get a dictator in an information bubble, but well that…

That's not quite true. There is a difference between e.g. making a really nice design "as good as possible" but producing something that is not best-practice, doesn't solve the problem well, isn't a standard look for whatever it is that you are designing.

There are many people who at least think they are working hard and well but the piece that is missing is the context that the work needs to fit into and the ability to evaluate it. There are a gazillion different ways to do marketing (and to do it "well") but most of those will either have little or no effect in a certain context so the true person who knows what they are doing knows the landscape, knows the costs, knows the trade-offs and knows how to measure success.

Re: No-one knows what they are doing

#28

Post by lbriner » Mon, Jun 20, 2022, 10:09 AM UTC

hansword wrote: post #2

I agree with the sentiment that adults are much better at projecting confidence than actually knowing what the heck they are doing or even making smart decisions. The advice of just founding a company without a plan? Not so much....

I don't know who said it but "Failing to plan is planning to fail, however, no war was ever won by planning alone".

In other words, most of business (as well as life) is both strategic and tactical. My strategic plans are needed because things take time and investment and we need a direction to give assurances. However, things change every day and the tactical side is working out how to deal with those.

I certainly think adults are better at projecting confidence but I also think as you grow older, you are more likely to be realistic about how messy things are.

Re: No-one knows what they are doing

#29

Post by hermitcrab » Mon, Jun 20, 2022, 10:12 AM UTC

hkon wrote: post #23

Having worked many places and looked at various technical solutions developed and used, I can understand where the author is coming from. Many things work and get the job done, but it's clear that the creators had little knowledge about how to solve the problems they solved from a mere technical know-how perspective. I read him as don't think you need to know everything about something to start doing it.

"don't think you need to know everything about something to start doing it" is probably a more accurate title, but less snappy. Also it doesn't hurt for the title to be a bit polarizing. ;0)

Re: No-one knows what they are doing

#30

Post by lbriner » Mon, Jun 20, 2022, 10:13 AM UTC

EnKopVand wrote: post #5

I’m going to let you in on a little secret. I spent almost a decade in public sector digitalisation in Denmark, and those politicians who look like they don’t know what they are doing in the media, well, they absolutely know what they are doing. Not only that, but they get advice from a bureaucracy full of well educated, really smart people, who also know what they are doing and have known so for decades. One of the…

Yes I agree, that it is easy to assume people are not clever but you only have to see most Politicians after they leave Government to hear how (usually) perceptive, articulate and intelligent they are - which presumably is how they convinced people to vote for them.

However, Government is like a big corporation with extreme levels of power and corruption in every country. It is also largely unique in that the Prime Minister/President can't just get rid of people they don't like or are not very good at their job, the voters recruited them! So then you balanbce priority, idealism, party politics, saving-face, money, making yourselves look powerful to the world, trade agreements and loads of other things. To be fair, it is remarkable we get anything useful out of it.