Title needs (2015).
How the Ballpoint Pen Killed Cursive
21–30 of 47 posts
Re: How the Ballpoint Pen Killed Cursive
#22Title needs (2015).
And it had an HN discussion then too:
Re: How the Ballpoint Pen Killed Cursive
#23I find it very hard to buy into the core premise of this article. Namely:
> Sassoon’s analysis of how we’re taught to hold pens makes a much stronger case for the role of the ballpoint in the decline of cursive. She explains that the type of pen grip taught in contemporary grade school is the same grip that’s been used for generations ... modern pens requires that they be placed at a greater, more upright angle to the paper—a position that’s generally uncomfortable with a traditional pen hold.
I was lucky enough in college to study calligraphy & penmanship through an independent study program. Most days I would be at my desk writing for six to ten hours. It was an obsession. After graduating, my practice continued at this pace for the next four years. I have experienced zero cramping or discomfort in my hand.
In that time, I've used an array of pens. From traditionally cured and cut quills, dip pens, to modern fountain pens. Ultimately, the vast majority of my practice was done with a ten cent Bic pen. They're cheap, reliable, and write quickly & consistently.
The actual difference between writing then vs. now has less to do with the pen itself, and more with how it's handled. Your poor, unpracticed, overly-tense grip on the pen is what causes discomfort. As does manipulating the pen with the fingers, rather than the larger muscles in your arm/shoulder.
Penmanship education, I'd argue, has been non-existent in America for well over a full generation. The further you go from the so-called "Golden Age of Penmanship" (~1860-1920), the more distance there is from real, quality professors of penmanship. Institutional knowledge is lost, and present day teachers are merely parroting back things they were told to be true, rather than educating based on a deep-seated practical knowledge.
Penmanship, and thus cursive, was incrementally killed by ever-easier ways of putting text to paper. Typewriters -> word processors -> computers -> cellphones.
Re: How the Ballpoint Pen Killed Cursive
#24I find it very hard to buy into the core premise of this article. Namely: > Sassoon’s analysis of how we’re taught to hold pens makes a much stronger case for the role of the ballpoint in the decline of cursive. She explains that the type of pen grip taught in contemporary grade school is the same grip that’s been used for generations ... modern pens requires that they be placed at a greater, more upright angle to th…
I can't disagree with your lived experience, but I have to say that mine has been different. I've never taken a penmanship class, but I did write almost exclusively with fountain pens for about four years at the end of high school and the start of my undergrad.
For me, writing with ballpoints required more pressure and a more upright grip, while fountain pens love to write in one flowing line at an angle to the page. When writing with a fountain pen, I will tend very naturally to cursive. With a ballpoint, cursive is a real chore.
I do agree with your last point, though: OneNote has replaced my fountain pens and ballpoints nearly completely at this point.
Re: How the Ballpoint Pen Killed Cursive
#25I would say that computers(and to a lesser degree typewriters) are what killed cursive. Cursive is the sloppy form of latin characters that you use when you have to write by hand a lot, the reduced specification on word separation and form really help the letters get out quick. see shorthand for an even quicker modern engineered version of this. When you no longer have to manually produce a large body of text(you hav…
> Cursive is the sloppy form of latin characters that you use when you have to write by hand a lot, the reduced specification on word separation and form really help the letters get out quick. This is a an incorrect view on the derivation of cursive, as well as a fundamental misunderstanding in the precise and systemic nature of script. Source: professional penman & calligrapher.
While I believe you I also would appreciate to know what the correct answer is then. Even an oversimplified summary version woull be great
Re: How the Ballpoint Pen Killed Cursive
#26Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have several higher end fountain pens that are my daily drivers. And I have zero incidents as well. I own several Lamy, Pilot, and Platinum. If you ever write with a Pilot Custom 823 on decent paper, you will never be able to go back. (If you enjoy the friction in writing, you need to try Lamy Al-Star/Safari fine nib, or Pilot Metropolitan fine nib. Medium nibs are smooth and some people don't like that.) And even…
Any suggestions for good lower cost pens?
I've gotten some cheap pens from China via Amazon and eBay. They're not as nice as the expensive pens, but for the price they're amazing. Some of the Lamy Safari knock offs are only a few dollars.
Re: How the Ballpoint Pen Killed Cursive
#27Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have several higher end fountain pens that are my daily drivers. And I have zero incidents as well. I own several Lamy, Pilot, and Platinum. If you ever write with a Pilot Custom 823 on decent paper, you will never be able to go back. (If you enjoy the friction in writing, you need to try Lamy Al-Star/Safari fine nib, or Pilot Metropolitan fine nib. Medium nibs are smooth and some people don't like that.) And even…
Any suggestions for good lower cost pens?
Lamy safari
Kweco sport
Pilot metropolitan
Those are all 20 bucks or so and are refillable
Platinum preppy's are not refillable but were my first fountain pen, can be had in many ink colors, and are about 5 bucks.
Re: How the Ballpoint Pen Killed Cursive
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
Any suggestions for good lower cost pens?
Lamy safari Kweco sport Pilot metropolitan Those are all 20 bucks or so and are refillable Platinum preppy's are not refillable but were my first fountain pen, can be had in many ink colors, and are about 5 bucks.
Thanks!
Re: How the Ballpoint Pen Killed Cursive
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
Pens in general are terrible for me as a left handed person. The only ones I like are the Frixion pens, as their ink seems to actually dry fast enough to not cover my hand in ink. Really writing as a left handed person feels like a fool’s errand. It just wasn’t made for me.
As for some solutions: The choice of the writing instrument helps a lot. While fountain pens feel amazing to write with, one looks like a smurf after writing with one. Hard pencils are one of the better choices. Writing slower also helps a bit. A “different” solution would be to write from right to left. I’ve tried it multiple times — both writing with mirrored symbols and writing non-mirrored symbols. The positive w…
Hah I took my notes in high school this way too! It came surprisingly naturally and wasn’t even that difficult for me to learn to read. Maybe I should just start taking notes backwards in business meetings, since nobody else reads them anyway.
Re: How the Ballpoint Pen Killed Cursive
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Cursive is the sloppy form of latin characters that you use when you have to write by hand a lot, the reduced specification on word separation and form really help the letters get out quick. This is a an incorrect view on the derivation of cursive, as well as a fundamental misunderstanding in the precise and systemic nature of script. Source: professional penman & calligrapher.
While I believe you I also would appreciate to know what the correct answer is then. Even an oversimplified summary version woull be great
Obvious disclaimer: not a historian. Though I can absolutely provide an simplified summary of both the development of present day cursive script.
European calligraphy was principally practiced as a means to produce and maintain religious texts[0].
From italic[1] calligraphic styles in the 1500's, we end up with Roundhand[2] in the 1600's. For reproductions/printing, it's often cut into a copper plate. Hence the common name for this family of scripts: Copperplate.
It makes its way to America, and eventually becomes Spencerian[3] script (mid/late 1800's).
Spencerian has an emphasis on a greater freedom of movement, and personal style. The script is designed to be highly legible, with a systematic approach to writing. There are a core set of fundamental strokes, from which you derive the alphabet. Instruction in this style is dominated by drills.
This evolves into business penmanship[4] (early 1900's). Most known by the Palmer method, though Palmer was a rather poor penman for the time. Business penmanship removes the variability in line thickness of Spencerian, and reduces the flourish particularly found in capitals. The cursive writing taught in most schools through the late 70's & 80's was the Palmer method.
Both scripts were designed for a quick, yet precise, flowing script. Principally for business (bookkeeping, accounting) and correspondence.
My contention, as expressed in another comment, lies in the failures of modern educators to understand and teach the script. Not script itself. I challenge anyone to find sloppiness in the instruction from Spencer[5] or Zaner[4]. I realize these are not necessarily the same contemporary examples of cursive you'd see, however the fundamentals of cursive education today is directly rooted in those same texts. Even my elementary school cursive instruction (late 1990's) featured the same drills as can be found in the Zaner book.
ref.
[0] https://digi.vatlib.it/view/bav_pal_lat_1811/0221
[1] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2a/Houghton...
[2] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1f/Bickham-...
[3] https://www.iampeth.com/sites/default/files/artwork/Musselma...
