Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Samsung Overtakes Apple as World’s Biggest Smartphone Seller

businessweek.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 97 posts

Re: Samsung Overtakes Apple as World’s Biggest Smartphone Seller

#21

Post by Tyrannosaurs »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #19
Tyrannosaurs wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true but it's something both sides are guilty of. The most vocal Android proponent I know carps on about market share incessantly as a measure of it's superiority despite having spent the best part of two decades reacting to Window's dominance with the old "eat shit, a billion flies can't be wrong". The truth is that both sides have some interesting challenges ahead. Google have just bought a device maker (wh…

Your post is all very reasonable, but do you not realise that this quote ... "And pretty much all Android phone manufacturers are operating on pretty thin margins because of the competition." ... simply isn't true, and the only reason you think that is because it has become an accepted truth in the Apple echo-chamber? (Mostly by intentionally fudging between mobile phone and smartphone numbers depending on whichever…

It may be changing but these figures are from Q2 this year and are pretty supportive:

http://www.asymco.com/2011/07/29/apple-captured-two-thirds-o...

Morotola Mobility just posted another loss in the last few days, LG have been losing money for 2 years now with no sign of turning it round. HTC margins are "disappointing" and their share price has dropped considerably in the last few months in large part because of the competition in the market (source: http://www.marketwatch.com/story/htc-profit-up-68-on-demand-...). HTC are making good profits but their margins aren't great.

Samsung are doing well but I'm not seeing anyone else wooping it up but I'd love to see anything that contradicts that (I own no Apple stock and I'm really not that vested one way or the other).

Re: Samsung Overtakes Apple as World’s Biggest Smartphone Seller

#22

Post by ZeroGravitas »

coob wrote: post #15

What percentage of the profits do they take? Exactly.

Do you have figures to share? You seem confident, yet I'm equally confident that their profits from smartphones are large and growing quickly.

It's seems unlikely that they would be doing so differently from HTC and ZTE, much smaller players who are doing very well.

I don't know of any comprehensive numbers on the market that I'd trust, but as a snapshot Apple reported $7.3 Billion profit in July (for phones, ipods, ipads + compters etc.) up 80% from last year, while Samsung just announced $2.3 Billion just from smartphones, a yearly increase of over 100%. (This doesn't seem to include money from selling components to other smartphone makers, such as Apple).

Re: Samsung Overtakes Apple as World’s Biggest Smartphone Seller

#23

Post by rimantas »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #19
Tyrannosaurs wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true but it's something both sides are guilty of. The most vocal Android proponent I know carps on about market share incessantly as a measure of it's superiority despite having spent the best part of two decades reacting to Window's dominance with the old "eat shit, a billion flies can't be wrong". The truth is that both sides have some interesting challenges ahead. Google have just bought a device maker (wh…

Your post is all very reasonable, but do you not realise that this quote ... "And pretty much all Android phone manufacturers are operating on pretty thin margins because of the competition." ... simply isn't true, and the only reason you think that is because it has become an accepted truth in the Apple echo-chamber? (Mostly by intentionally fudging between mobile phone and smartphone numbers depending on whichever…

So, provide your numbers.

  > Mostly by intentionally fudging between mobile phone and
  > smartphone numbers depending on whichever makes Apple
  > sound better)
I am especially interested in examples to illustrate this your point. Some dumb phone manufacturer has higher margins than Apple with iPhone and Apple chooses to ignore that?

Re: Samsung Overtakes Apple as World’s Biggest Smartphone Seller

#24

Post by technoslut »

nextparadigms wrote: post #9

I was expecting this. Apple can't possibly match Samsung with all their smartphone price ranges, and it's only the beginning for Samsung. There are a lot more "units" to be sold in the under $150 level. That's where the biggest volume will come from. I also expect them to surpass Nokia in all phone shipments, too (they already did in smartphones). But it might take a few more quarters. Nokia will transition too slowl…

There are other factors that did give Samsung an advantage such as no new iPhone launched by Apple this quarter. It remains to be seen what the impact is of new iPhone, Sprint availability and a 3GS that is free with a contract. Apple is predicting that they will generate $40 billion during the next quarter.

With a 'free' 3GS Apple is pretty much competing with Samsung and Android now at every price point.

Re: Samsung Overtakes Apple as World’s Biggest Smartphone Seller

#25

Post by hpaavola »

Tyrannosaurs wrote: post #14
Mordor wrote: post #12

... and so the pressure builds on Apple to diversify, which is what killed it last time. Really Apple needs to invent and come up with something special, but as SJ would tell you - which idea do you pick?

Does it? It may not ship the units that Samsung ships but it makes far more money off the smaller number of units it does sell. The reality is that Apple were the largest smartphone manufacturer in the world for one quarter. It would be more accurate to view the fact that they were (briefly) number one as a blip rather than see it as a major title they lost and something they need to react to.

How much money does Apple and Samsung make from smartphones?

Re: Samsung Overtakes Apple as World’s Biggest Smartphone Seller

#26

Post by coob »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #22
coob wrote: post #15

What percentage of the profits do they take? Exactly.

Do you have figures to share? You seem confident, yet I'm equally confident that their profits from smartphones are large and growing quickly. It's seems unlikely that they would be doing so differently from HTC and ZTE, much smaller players who are doing very well. I don't know of any comprehensive numbers on the market that I'd trust, but as a snapshot Apple reported $7.3 Billion profit in July (for phones, ipods,…

Asymco smartphone profit league table updated for Q3:

http://pic.twitter.com/rIO0siLf

Edit: See also: http://www.asymco.com/hire-me/vendor-bubbles/

Re: Samsung Overtakes Apple as World’s Biggest Smartphone Seller

#27

Post by rjd »

Mordor wrote: post #12

... and so the pressure builds on Apple to diversify, which is what killed it last time. Really Apple needs to invent and come up with something special, but as SJ would tell you - which idea do you pick?

Killed it last time? sooo it had nothing to do with Microsoft , Windows 95, and the arrival of the internet?

The 90s house hold computing boom left Apple completely out of the equation, the couldn't compete on any level. Jobs turned that around by competiting where MS couldn't, with hardware and usability (through lock in).

Re: Samsung Overtakes Apple as World’s Biggest Smartphone Seller

#28

Post by bad_user »

technoslut wrote: post #24
nextparadigms wrote: post #9

I was expecting this. Apple can't possibly match Samsung with all their smartphone price ranges, and it's only the beginning for Samsung. There are a lot more "units" to be sold in the under $150 level. That's where the biggest volume will come from. I also expect them to surpass Nokia in all phone shipments, too (they already did in smartphones). But it might take a few more quarters. Nokia will transition too slowl…

There are other factors that did give Samsung an advantage such as no new iPhone launched by Apple this quarter. It remains to be seen what the impact is of new iPhone, Sprint availability and a 3GS that is free with a contract. Apple is predicting that they will generate $40 billion during the next quarter. With a 'free' 3GS Apple is pretty much competing with Samsung and Android now at every price point.

On the other hand, keeping the 3GS on the market will mean new iOS versions have to remain compatible with it and it will also mean further fragmentation of the platform (hardware capabilities and resolution).

So it will cost them something. Competition is a bitch.

Re: Samsung Overtakes Apple as World’s Biggest Smartphone Seller

#29

Post by jamesrom »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #6
moomin wrote: post #2

Apple never set out to make the most smartphones, it just kind of happened. They set out to make the most money. Samsung are a fair distance from achieving that.

"They set out to make the most money." It really worries me that there's a new breed of Apple fan that actually believes this. In reality they set out to build the best device (for affluent, white, middle-aged, American males with a taste for minimalism) and semi-accidentally became fashionable status symbols. The crowing about making the most money was just fanboy bragging because every other stat they bragged about…

So you're upset that Apple fans are claiming that Apple set out to make a lot of money instead of claiming they set out to make the best device?

That sounds backwards to me.

Re: Samsung Overtakes Apple as World’s Biggest Smartphone Seller

#30

Post by ZeroGravitas »

coob wrote: post #26
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have figures to share? You seem confident, yet I'm equally confident that their profits from smartphones are large and growing quickly. It's seems unlikely that they would be doing so differently from HTC and ZTE, much smaller players who are doing very well. I don't know of any comprehensive numbers on the market that I'd trust, but as a snapshot Apple reported $7.3 Billion profit in July (for phones, ipods,…

Asymco smartphone profit league table updated for Q3: http://pic.twitter.com/rIO0siLf Edit: See also: http://www.asymco.com/hire-me/vendor-bubbles/

Your graph appears to show Samsung overtaking RIM and Nokia in profits and moving into second place as its smartphone marketshare grows to be the largest (it overtook them both in marketshare during the last year).

Do you think that supports your point or mine? As a reminder my point was that "I'm equally confident that their profits from smartphones are large and growing quickly".

(The bubbles' seem to paint the same picture in a more dynamic way, with Apple, Samsung and HTC rising strongly over the last year though it ends at June.)

I'm a bit confused about Apple's profit being "6" according to the bubble thing in June and it being $7.5 Billion for their entire product line the next quarter. I guess that's not just smartphones then (edit: yep, confirmed it's all products combined).

Post reply on HN